Why don't people consider video games art?

IIRC it was from an art history class. For sure it wasn’t just a localized opinion. What separated fine art vs commercial art vs decorative/craft art. And from there it talked about how different forms of fine art had a ranking or status, which may have changed based on era and culture.

For example during European Renaissance it went something like painting > sculpture > ceramics > textiles. The later hierarchies would have photography towards the bottom.

And then for paintings there were different genres considered for “high art” during different periods.

I mean this was like 25 years ago, so apologies if I am fuzzy on it. Maybe I am making the whole thing up with bad memories!

But to be clear, I don’t subscribe to such hierarchies. I acknowledge society tends to view certain mediums and subjects more seriously, but I am of the “anything can be art” camp.

Art critics aren’t people.

A fun explainer of modern art, and in the form of ART! Albeit, according to the art, of the lowest form of art, all weighted down with subject matter and illustration. From the 1940’s, deserves an update, which, yeah someone must have already done it but I’ve used up my down-the-rabbit-hole time for the day.

The source article is worth a look too.

Playing the ‘what is art’ game is ontological silliness, and expecting that there exists a definitive answer a form of madness. Even so I think you are confusing ‘art’ and ‘artform’ here. I agree that the element of competition is not the relevant factor, but that doesn’t make your example art. There are lots of things that make up part of the practice of being a dancer (and hence the artform)—rehearsals, attending classes—that are necessary, and even form the majority of what you do, that aren’t art, just things you need to do to make it.

They might not even be that - I do the same things if I attend for class for fun or exercise, as if I attend it part of the practice of being a dancer—and there is nothing to distinguish the two—but I am vehement in insisting the doing the former does not make me the latter. I am not making dance so I am not a dancer: more widely it (being a dancer, being an artist) is something you do, not something you are. (By way of explanation I studied dance full time at one point and did make dance so it was true at one time).

If I were to make dance again asking ‘is is art’ is asking the wrong question. The question I should ask myself is: Does it work? This is necessarily contingent and dependent on the individual piece I made—with dance the answer might even vary from one night to the next. The answer can be no, of course. There is lots of bad art out there, but it doesn’t stop being art because its bad.

So in the case of our theoretical audition/competition asking ‘Did it work?’ is asking ‘Did you get the part?’, which is clearly a different purpose than whatever nominal purpose we wish to ascribe to ‘art’.

This has some bearing on the question of whether video games can be art, or rather the questions we might need to ask. One of the reasons I would insist on asking does it work, not is it art is that the latter tends to rest on an unspoken assumption that art is somehow special or set apart without providing a justification for why this should be so. That it turn lends it to a similar valorization of the role of ‘artist’, especially, as something that is somehow distinct from their work. I once read a very cutting critique of Joseph Beuy’s statement that "Everybody is an Artist’. While seemingly radical and democratic, it conceals something that is the opposite. As the writer put it: we all take the trash out at some point but nobody says ‘Everybody is a Garbage Collector’, why is that?

So firstly we might want to be cautious about why people ask the question, and wonder who stands to gain what from it? Secondly we should pose the question how does it function. In the case of video games how they function as games is central. Unrelated to art but know less important for it. We can’t also point to quality as an indicator (bad art is still art). Rather we should ask can it function in ways that we recognise as having a family resemblance to the ways in which things we recognise as art work.

The answer to this is certainly yes, though that hardly answers the question in terms of games as a category. This not something I think can necessarily be answered, nor it is one I an convinced we should really care about. Where it does become relevant, after all, is mostly for purposes that only superficially concern themselves with art (for arts sake) - prestige, eligibility for grant funding etc, etc.

If we want to concern ourselves with Video games (or code, or any other novel medium) as art the only real way to get at an answer is to make work and ask of it the question ‘Does it work?’.

1 Like

In basketball, the goal is to win by putting a ball through the hoop within the handling and time constraints set by the rules.

A narrative TV show, whether it succeeds or fails, presents the pretense of art.

A video game is a product that convinces the end users that they are doing something productive within the confines of the activity.

I am a gamer with an extensive video game collection. I like and play games. I have art collections, soundtracks, and many other game-related merch. This isn’t an issue of my looking down on video games. This is my experience-based belief from years of playing games. The people who sold the 2600 on convincing you that the square that shoots rectangular bars at triangles is a space soldier shooting hovering robots are artists. The people who make games where the plug the same franchise story scenario into an RPG, a color-match puzzle game, and a slot machine are also making that same concession. The art is contained in the graphics, music, and story. The game itself is not that important, the art is convincing you to play and continue playing.

The end-user’s play is as much art as an audience members continued attention. How long you are willing to sit in a theater is really the function of what you are watching. The amount of time you are willing to spend interfacing with a video game is primarily a function your interest in the game itself.

The taking in of art is not art much like the play of a video game is also not art. The second the experience becomes art, you have moved into a different activity.

If I buy a chair and sit on it, it’s not art

If I hang it on a wall and look at it instead …

1 Like

I guess we will have to agree to disagree then.

You seem to be unwilling to entertain the idea that the creators of a game can create art through anything other than the traditional mediums of music, visuals, narrative and etc.

I, on the other hand, believe that mechanics, modes of interaction, and the melding of and interplay between traditional art mediums that take place within the confines of a game are a different and unique form of art that is equally valid and does not really exist outside of games, though you can see elements of it in, say, improvisational and audience participation theatre.

Not that the player’s actions or play within the game are art, but the creation and presentation of mechanics (in particular), narrative techniques, and interactivity by the game creators that define the experience is art.

Which is fine - whether or not you agree has no impact at all on my opinion on this, and my opinion has no impact at all on anything

1 Like

Yep. Braid is another of my arty games.

1 Like

You basically get my point except for one thing. It isn’t that I am, “unwilling to entertain the idea that the creators of a game can create art through anything other than the traditional mediums,” it is that I don’t believe the elements that game makers add to the gaming experience have achieved art.

I welcome having my mind changed by a creator who can make the gaming experience art.

Insisting that games like Death Stranding, Braid, and Skyrim are art without making a case for why those games cross the Rubicon into the realm of art outside of making declarations is not enough to convince me that the art of video games is similar to the art of the con, mainly making you waste time to advance the story or score points.

You didn’t make these assertions, but that always seems to be the hard sell for the games as art advocates. You just have to play product A to get it. That is not good enough to make the game art. When Ebert angered the gaming community gamers basically spammed the guy’s site linking the fine art of Namco’s Vampire Knight and Time Crisis, the amazing acting from Capcom’s Biohazard or Sega’s House of the Dead. Even they seemed to recognize that the cut scenes in games resemble art greater than the game play, but we’re intent on annoying the man into submission.

Until then, I appreciate the effort and the hard work, but interface isn’t art.

This topic was automatically closed after 5 days. New replies are no longer allowed.