And that makes me wonder if Ford or Hood knew of Cards rabid homophobia before taking on the movie. People are calling this a “weak protest” but if it brings to the forefront of public knowledge what Card does with his profits, it has achieved some of its purpose. If some people choose to not see it because of this weak protest, it has achieved more of its purpose. If it causes big time actors and directors choose to not work on his projects because they actually support equal rights, then it has achieved even more of its purpose. The purpose of boycotts is NOT just keeping your money from going to those you oppose.
I’ve said my peice. I am glad you took the time to read it. We disagree. That’s cool. And I get where you are coming from. That’s cool too. And we live in a country where we get to just plain disagree. That’s also cool.
Your right Cory… I was going to refuse to pirate this film to let Scott Card know that I don’t agree with his viewpoints… but should we judge a work of art based on the morality of the creator? I’ve decided to pirate it, but not talk about it with my liberal friends.
Corey, serious question here. Does the fact that he’s a writer and that you’re a writer have anything to do with this? Did you love Ender’s Game as a book? I’m not trolling here, just pointing out that sometimes it’s hardest to make clear distinctions about things that are close to our hearts. Do you really, in your heart, believe that Card making money from this won’t lead to Card spending that money on promoting hate and inequality? Do you really believe that a successful movie release, where no one talks about his political action, won’t lead to more movie deals and more money? If you like a book enough that you really want a movie version of it, does that make it OK? I really would like your thoughts on this, as I’ve bought some of your books.
Put me with those who are saying that Blacklist =/= boycott.
Blacklist’s are secretive, generally driven by authoritarian figures or organizations, and typically seek to deprive someone of something. You could be blacklisted and never know it.
Boycott’s are extremely public, open, and upfront about what they want. They are also (with exception) non-violent. You will always know if you are being boycotted.
@RemusShepherd: Mr. Card has talked plenty of times about the need to keep GBLT people illegal - and to have a few display prosecutions every so often to keep us in line. It’s totally about exactly that.
I’m absolutely boycotting this film - and will do so until Mr. Card is dead. Then I’ll get back my OSC books and put them back on my bookshelf but not before. (Further, as noted: a boycott isn’t a blacklisting.)
As for whether it’s “enough,” as has been asked by Bleeding Cool? This isn’t even an apology. Hell no, it’s not “enough.” It’ll be “enough” when I’ve had a lifetime of active, direct, and brutal persecution taken back. I’m not political by nature and I hate politics, but thanks to him and his compatriots I’ve spent a lifetime spending blood and treasure to be a legal person. Give me some of that back. That’s when it’ll be enough.
Until then, this is all I have to say about this particular subject:
(Harsh language at link; stronger letter to follow.)
So if a majority of people believe that minorities shouldn’t vote, and we make it illegal for minorities to vote, that’s OK too? Last time I checked, our system wasn’t based on “51% gets to make the rules, as long as no body gets killed”. Something about inalienable rights, pursuit of happiness, liberty… something like that, right? But I’m glad you don’t want anyone butchering me or throwing me in a mass grave. [quote=“RemusShepherd, post:75, topic:3138”]
he has his beliefs and preferred laws, and I have my beliefs and preferred laws, and one of the two viewpoints will win
Sort of like a cage match of ideas.
Cory, You encourage us to support humblebundle because the profits are used for good causes. This is fair, but the flip side of the coin is that some of the profits from this film will be used for bad. Orson Scott Card uses his own money to support NOM and actively campaign against gay rights. I don’t think there is any justification for supporting him in this context. You enjoyed his book, and that’s fair enough. Many books have been ruined by poor film adaptations, so why take the time to see this one?
You quote Brust to say ‘it’s an ineffective way to create change’. Card has already begun to backtrack on his comments (though apologist, rather than apology would probably sum up what he has said) so clearly this isn’t the case. More pressure on his wallet could yet lead to more change. Your second point is that a blacklist/boycott could work against us. Personally it couldn’t work against me, as I’m not a creator, but I appreciate that you are, and that your livelihood depends on people supporting you. I doubt, however, that your audience would be put off by you boycotting this film (a decision you could have kept private). Far more likely they will boycott your work for supporting it, especially since you have been so vocal.
There are times when you can separate the body of work from the artist, but when profit from that work is used to support the artist’s negative actions it is worth reconsidering whether to support them.
that shit does not work
Boycotts can and do work.
Oh, and I’m not the first to observe this, but I presume this “moot” thing means that Card’s anti-gay National Organisation for Marriage will be closing its doors?
If that were his only issues I’d be upset, but still would go.
I give you his blog, where he writes about his hatred for all things liberal, women, etc.
No. I -suspect- over the long term it will show a gain–mainly because the restaurant is now held in reverence by so many wingnuts. That said, I don’t know it for a fact–its entirely possible that the people who will never, ever go to chick-fil-a after the controversy outweighs that. But I haven’t heard any reports about their numbers going down. Frankly, I think the people who weren’t going to go there anyway composed much of the boycott, and the right wingers loved it anyway–and this just gives them an excuse to eat there 3 times a week instead of 2.
In any case, in the short term, they definitely had a surge and… Movies are all about the short term, which is another reason I worry about a boycott feeding the monster rather than starving it here. The bigots are still stinging after the Supreme Court decisions–I think they’d love to relive some of that glory from last summer to boost their side’s morale and sense of being a hidden majority, and countering a boycott would be just the ticket.
Hope I’m wrong.
- Boycott the movie entirely. Give him no money. Pirate the movie if really want to watch it.
Meanwhile, as far as Card goes:
Boycotts are definitely not the same as blacklisting and are used all the time by the left to help create positive change in the world. Publicly NOT supporting the creative work of a hate monger - no matter the quality of the work - seems to me like an excellent use of boycotting. I bought the recent humble bundle of sci fi works and choose to give all the money to the artists because one of the charities listed was sfwa, who have stumbled big time lately on equality and respect issues. When the culture there changes, I will happily support them. We live in a consumer society, where the money goes is where the power is. I hope Cory seriously reconsiders his position.
There you have it folks. If you pay to see this movie at the boxoffice, a percentage of that ticket sale will go to Card. Even if this movie didn’t look like a suckfest (judging by the trailer I saw), I will not be going to see it.
I’m not giving him a click. Mother doesn’t like it when I troll the dark places on the internets.
I’m not going because Card is a tool, I’m not going because Ender’s Game was a horrible book, and I’m expecting even worse from the movie.
No, it’s not okay, and that’s a poor strawman. Those people have a right to their opinion. You work to make sure those people do not get their way in the legal system. I just don’t see a point to hating and punishing people for their non-violent beliefs. Don’t let them take over, but don’t make hate worse by piling more hate on top of it.
Welcome to human society. Everything human beings do has always been cage matches between ideas.
And that’s where you and I differ.
Given that Card HAS violent beliefs, and has urged people to rebel against the leadership violently, and has encouraged the Ugandan government to institute the death penalty for homosexuality, I think it’s clear what you should do.
His beliefs stopped being non-violent when he started calling for people to die.
What percentage is going to Card? What about all the other people that worked on the movie and would be getting money for it? Do they have the same viewpoint(s) as his, or do any/a good portion of these people support gay rights? I think it’s easy to target/focus on this movie because of the author, but it’s fundamentally difficult to assess the exact type of impact a ticket will have. It’s only easy to construe an impact once you’re willing to ignore everything else and equate the movie with Card himself.
Your suggestion that Card donate his profits is an interesting one: why not encourage the studio to donate a portion of their profits to LGBT-rights organizations to show they don’t align themselves with his views? This would probably be a bit more effective than this boycott, and probably would piss Card off a bit as well