I hate every last ounce of it. From the “free speech makes it my right to harass you,” to the “free-speech must now be curtailed until it is used responsibly.” The former for obvious reasons and the latter because it’s an impossible task made all the more impossibler by the fact that people really enjoy using that principle on people who have the least amount of power in our society. I’m so sick of the Participatory Internet lately. I’ve even been avoiding BoingBoing for lack of energy. Everything is a fucking struggle, and every argument devolves into whether or not you, personally, are a garbage person. On BB, at least we don’t get doxxers and real assholes, but it’s enough out there in the world that I really find myself sticking to familiar territory.
I’m not participating in anything except BB and that’s been declining, not so much because people here are assholes, but because the community has stabilized somewhat, and users tend to be known quantities. I’m just plain not going to have certain arguments with certain users about certain things because I know how it will end: with nothing new or interesting having been said. But am I going to make YT videos… like… ever? No. Am I going to open up a Twitter account? Fuck that noise. At this point, I’m not even sure it’s worth it to get back to blogging. To be clear: Fear isn’t the motivator. At this point in my life or career there’s little to worry about, though Justine Sacco comes to mind. What a clusterfuck that was, which only goes to show the most innocent things you do are open to most extreme overreactions in the name of … justice? I guess? No I’m not afraid, and while I can’t speak for all women everywhere (especially considering that I’m a man) I suspect that neither are a lot of them. Most women on the Internet are not cripplingly afraid they’ll be harassed more than they are Totally Not Putting Up With Any Bullshit.
I do think that free speech is dead: It died of exhaustion.
Your words remind me how digital communication and the tech supporting it is still so new. Also how practicing kindness and listening (digitally) with strangers (with artificially limited “likes”) challenges us in new ways.
I personally think commercial organization of our new technology isn’t always the most useful organization. … That last bit is outside of what you shared though …
No wonder free speech is tired. We can renew our strength though. Tomorrow is a new day.
Well on certain “trigger” or “issue” topics you sort of already know the regulars’ positions going in. So unless the blog post in question raises some new, heretofore unseen nuance, or a unique situation that hasn’t quite been addressed before… yeah, you’re going to see the same arguments presented over and over.
It’s kind of like sparring in a dojo, I guess. The practice (of what? argument? exposition?) of discussing the same trigger-y topics over and over has to become its own reward. I think perhaps the saving grace here is sense of humor. Even if it’s a trigger-y topic we’ve seen debated a hundred times before, there are always ways to be interesting and funny. And as the Daily Show has proven time and time again, if you are actually interesting in reaching people and affecting their viewpoints on these issues, you’ll reach people a zillion times faster through humor than by “winning” today’s episode of Harvard Debate Club.
I do think it’s true that a few people who may not have understood the issue or the arguments might wander by and be illuminated by a point someone makes, or a link that explains things further. I know I actually learned a ton about transgender issues reading the topics here – for example, I had no idea the bathroom was such a warzone, or why. But now I do, and I appreciate the difficulty and risks much more than I did before.
Of course, It’s a different story on the non-trigger topics that don’t involve deeply controversial evergreen issues like sexism, racism, abortion, guns, cyclists-vs-cars, etc. And certainly less than half the BB blog entries are directly about that stuff.
edit: longer term, if the community isn’t slowly gaining new participants and regulars over time, it’ll die. I don’t think that’s the case here, we don’t have a Children of Men scenario, but it does highlight the roles of regulars in herding new users through the gauntlet of trigger topics, so they can catch up and learn stuff, and eventually become as bored and jaded as us too.
Re: women’s experience in public, I found it very interesting when my girlfriend first came to live in my home town. For me there were a handful of places that I didn’t consider safe or where my presence would stand out. Most people seemed pretty nice if you avoided the chavs. I’d go out with my wife and she would honestly seem a bit paranoid that that guy was staring at her or that we should go the long way around to avoid walking through a particular area or passing that group of men. I mean, I probably wouldn’t get on with those guys, but they didn’t seem to be bothering anyone and I’d been through those areas plenty of times before. Then she’d tell me what it was like if I wasn’t there. It’s like the Twilight Zone or something - that take-away with the friendly owner? He creeps on women when they come alone. Those guys who are minding their own business? They shout sexual remarks at her across the street when she goes shopping, and it makes her feel uncomfortable in her own body and unsafe in the town centre. That side street? If she went down there alone, there’s a chance that a man could follow her. All this stuff is normal to her and has been happening since before she was a teenager. I was not physically intimidating in any way - 20 years old (but I looked younger), pretty skinny and one of the reasons my wife was interested in me was that she didn’t believe I could hurt anyone (I’m not feeble, but I don’t give off an aggressive vibe at all). It’s easy to think that women are overreacting when your experience is so different and men don’t really act that way in your presence (even when you are weaker than them and alone), but since then a number of men have let me see that side of them when they thought I’d approve. It’s the weirdest thing - you’re looking at them like they’ve just gone crazy and telling them to shut up, while they think you’ve gone mad because you don’t think the woman likes being shouted at or you give the wrong reaction to their funny story about pushing a woman into sex.
Men are super super super secretive about this shit. It is absolutely key to understanding the situation.
It is also why it is hard to be an “ally” in The Real World, because skeevy dudes are always on their best behavior when other dudes might be there to defend the women or call them out on their shit. As a man, you will rarely catch dudes doing this stuff with you present. They very intentionally wait until no other men are around to be horrible to women.
(also explains why women complain about weird sexist behaviors and you’re like “really? I’ve never seen that! are you sure?” – you don’t see it because the men involved make good god damn sure you are never around to see it!)
I think the first hurdle is believing women, which is where many men seem to fall. But yeah, when you’ve seen the same guy and saying that he’s just trying to be friendly seems plausible and is going to do the least damage to your worldview, it’s important to listen when a woman says something like “I know that look”.
This is kind of why I tend not to call myself a feminist. Not because there’s something bad about feminism, but because of all those years of me not seeing the problems that women habitually deal with; I just don’t think I’m a very good feminist.
This. What did Jon Stewart say when he retired? He was tired of mining for shit every day? Its that really. I know the shit mine is there, I wade it into it from time to time, but mostly I just avoid it. Hell I avoid most threads here too. /shrug
It wasn’t until about six years ago that my wife explained to me the harassment she got on a daily basis. I was dumbfounded, cause it doesn’t happen when I’m around.
She also works as a beer steward (bartender but for awesome beers), and several times I’ve been in the place when others don’t know we were together. And the male patrons behavior are abominable. A quick shout of, “that’s my wife” always shuts them up, but WTF? Why you have to be a sexist Arsehole in the first place?
I can tell you with certainty that people that call themselves feminists can be jerks… Two of them ruined my marriage. But that is an indictment of the individuals, not the classification.
Yeah, sure, I totally asked to be catcalled while wearing an oversized fleece, blue jeans and steel-toe boots. Yup. ::eyeroll:: (yes, this describes my attire in the most recent incident.)
@codinghorror: The gentleman’s helmet has some Aloha Spirit. It is neither masculine, nor feminine, it just is.
This is a thing!! I got so much more harassment when I was dressed “down” than when dressed up! What is up with that! Face full o’make up, fancy dress and shoes, not a peep. But no make up messy hair dirty jeans = all the cat calls in the world! What is up with that!
They’re the warmest boots I’ve ever owned, the steel-toed part is simply a tactical bonus.
@Missy_Pants: We look less intimidating to cowards when dressed casually? Dunno. I find I garner demands of smiling when I’m dressed up. Fuck that. I don’t owe anybody shit. I’ve had a visceral negative reaction to those unsolicited demands since I was a young teen.
As the UN representative for men, I formally apologize. (That was the joke part) Daily due diligence is done by me and my staff to stomp that bullshite out (serious part).
I’m getting warnings that 20% of the comments are mine and to be mindful to make sure I’m letting others get their say. WHY YOU TRYING TO SILENCE WOMEN TALKING ABOUT FEMINISM BBS? WHY FOR?!
On a side note, its been strangely gratifying to age out of street harassment. I’m 43. On the street, I’m invisible these days, so much more pleasant to walk home now!
As a young woman, I was warned that I’d eventually become invisible, like that was some kind of bad thing. Now that I’m middle aged and “invisible” I think it’s pretty fantastic, actually.
