doctorow — 2013-07-31T15:30:05-04:00 — #1
gendun — 2013-07-31T15:34:58-04:00 — #2
Who does he think he's kidding? I saw his talk at Defcon last year and it didn't pass the laugh test.
A man who tells lies merely hides the truth, but a man who tells half-lifes has forgotten where he put it.
pendomatic — 2013-07-31T16:26:23-04:00 — #3
Keith Alexander's BlackhatUSA speech on soundcloud
bzishi — 2013-07-31T16:48:09-04:00 — #4
I'm not up to date on Gen. Alexander. I know DNI Clapper lied to Congress, but did Alexander?
Edit: btw, be gentle. I'm not asking as a troll. I hate these fuckers. I'm just curious what the evidence of his lying is since I haven't seen it yet.
timothy_krause — 2013-07-31T17:08:49-04:00 — #5
Dude hardly deserves the immortal line you quote, as delivered memorably, devastatingly, by the great Claude Rains. But, hey, since we're at it:
It's a little clash of temperament that's going on in there. Inevitably, one of them's half-mad. And the other—wholly unscrupulous.
glyphgryph — 2013-07-31T17:20:12-04:00 — #6
I think people are using the collective "you" here - "you", as in "your organization, that you are representing right now as you stand before us".
And it would be hard to argue the NSA hasn't lied to us and Congress multiple times at this point.
boundegar — 2013-07-31T17:23:37-04:00 — #7
These guys should be immortalized in some kind of hall of fame next to Muntadhar al-Zaidi.
davide405 — 2013-07-31T17:38:55-04:00 — #8
Because in my opinion, what you believe is what’s written in the press
without looking at the facts.
But what facts do we get to look at? If the NSA had its way the only "facts" we would be allowed to examine are those officially declassified and released to the press.
What do we call the data released by leakers?
timquinn — 2013-07-31T18:11:55-04:00 — #9
Where do you get facts except through the media? I am so tired of posturing being mistaken for action. It is no big deal to point and shout. Real work is hard.
(I am agreeing with you David, just using your post to speak to the quote in your reply.)
gendun — 2013-07-31T18:52:28-04:00 — #10
Just about the best movie ever made.
notruescotsman — 2013-07-31T19:22:50-04:00 — #11
That part where he said he hadn't lied to Congress? That was a lie.
indubitably — 2013-07-31T20:06:34-04:00 — #12
Brand sale, anyone? Anyone?
Anyone wanna buy my brand?
Why won't any of you take my brand seriously?
You can tell me; just don't lie...
lasermike026 — 2013-07-31T20:22:25-04:00 — #13
Is anyone believing this? I'm not. This guy is shoveling tons of bulls^&!. I would be laughing if it were not for the seriousness of the crimes of the NSA and what total surveillance means for this country and the world.
hi_endian — 2013-07-31T20:43:20-04:00 — #14
I would respond to this thread in a more substantive way if it weren't for the fact that I would probably get sent to some gulag for doing so.
lasermike026 — 2013-07-31T21:07:53-04:00 — #15
I just listened to the audio. The amount of lies I have experienced is quite overwhelming. I mean, there is just so much deception and in a constant stream. I think this speech would qualify as "the big lie". Just today documents were released directly refuting what Alexander has said.
We do you do with a guy like this? Get rid if him and get rid of him yesterday. This guys needs to be fired and sent right to prison. His criminal guilt is the only thing greater than the amount of bullcrap I've heard.
gilbertwham — 2013-07-31T21:44:32-04:00 — #16
Why, we call those Treacherous Lies, Sir. The kind of thing a Commie or a Terrorist would believe. You ain't no Terrorist now are you son?
teapot — 2013-07-31T22:32:00-04:00 — #17
teapot — 2013-07-31T22:43:18-04:00 — #18
I believe him. I don't think he's giving us the full story, but I also believe his explanations to be fairly representative of the real situation. The dude's never going to let out operational information that hasn't already been outed in one way or another, but a lot of what he's claiming is pretty easy to believe. He also needs to patch up the sense of mistrust in the relationship between hackers and the NSA because who the hell do you think the NSA hires? Lying to people who are the most likely to be able to see through your lies is not a good recruitment drive technique.
I don't believe him when it comes to oversight, and I don't believe him when he says judges don't rubber-stamp stuff. I think that there would be a few stubborn judges who understand that they're supposed to work for people, not the government, but the large majority would prefer to just let the NSA do as they please.
lasermike026 — 2013-07-31T22:51:00-04:00 — #19
We need a data dump. Enough of this power point crap. We need the evidence.
bardfinn — 2013-08-01T00:22:15-04:00 — #20
The point of parcelling the leaks out is to let the US Government's intelligence community build a web of perjury and mistrust before their lies are set in sharp relief afresh when a new leak is parcelled out.
I had a discussion on Reddit earlier today with someone who seemed very keen on countering the assertion Snowden made that analysts can wiretap any American at any time, by saying he was an analyst, and he'd have to jump through 10000 hoops and volumes of legal guidelines / regs just to do so, among other bits. I don't know if he really was an analyst (I doubt it) or a social media spin technician or an outright liar - but it had me thinking, that the thing they are really, really uncomfortable about is the assertion that Americans can be surveilled without due process.
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