This will probably be the legacy of Snowden: By revealing most everything, he eliminated the âweâd like to debate it openly but we canât reveal anythingâ excuse that has stifled any debate. The debate is on.
Snowden will be in the history books and heâll be very much on the right side of history. To all those who maligned him, theyâll be an embarrassment to their future generations of children whoâll read about the doltish detractors who were too docile, uninformed, evil and/or dense to understand he was an American patriot.
I wouldnât be proud of my grandfather if he was on the wrong side of history in American civil rights. This is very similar.
All of you that denounced Snowden and called him a traitor, your legacy will be shit. Might as well retire your family name, because itâll just be an embarrassment for future generations.
If youâve supported Snowden, then please pat yourself on the back. You helped to do good for this world.
And⌠on that note, itâs time to give the EFF the support they need to fight for you.
Thanks @doctorow and thanks EFF.
Well, weâre certainly starting to see the reasons for the governmentâs âDonât listen to this Snowden guyâ propaganda attack, eh?
âaccidental violations of the lawâ
cute.
So who goes to jail for this crime?
Pretty much confirms the idea that sunlight is the best disinfectant. This secrecy bullshit has gone on long enough.
Yeah, does that work when you go 85 MPH on the freeway? You could be accelerating to avoid a dangerous driver and not realize you have increased speed to that degree. No, that excuse doesnât work.
Most of what people are attributing to Snowden was revealed years ago. And much of the rest is the result of lawsuits that have been in the works for years. Snowdenâs responsible for much of the mainstream media waking up. And since thatâs pretty much all congress pays attention to, thatâs obviously good.
I donât think that is entirely true. With Snowdenâs release, The ACLU had proof in order to file a lawsuit. Having suspicions without basis will get you nowhere fast and your case tossed out.
If I criticize how the NAACP handled the Claudette Colvin case, does that mean Iâm on the wrong side of history? Sometimes, people on the right side do screwed up things. Sometimes while trying to help. You should be able to point that out without being told youâre on the âwrong sideâ.
This lawsuit was filed by the EFF a couple years ago.
And you donât need proof of something to request a release of info under FOIA, that would totally defeat the purpose.
The ACLUâs 2008 lawsuit challenging the constitutionality of the FISA Amendments Act, which authorized the so-called âwarrantless wiretapping program,â was dismissed 5â4 by the Supreme Court in February on the grounds that the plaintiffs could not prove that they had been monitored. ACLU attorneys working on todayâs complaint said they do not expect the issue of standing to be a problem in this case because of the FISA Court order revealed last week.
If I criticize how the NAACP handled the Claudette Colvin case, does that mean Iâm on the wrong side of history?
This is about NSA spying and Snowden. Go start another thread if you want to discuss a different issue. Youâre off-topic and irrelevant.
Most of what people are attributing to Snowden was revealed years ago.
Snowdenâs responsible for much of the mainstream media waking up
Heâs responsible for more than that for christâs sake. Why minimize what heâs done?
2010s global surveillance disclosures - Wikipedia?
Thanks to Snowden, we now know the NSA:
⢠Had James Clapper lie under oath to us - on camera - to Congress to hide the domestic spying programs Occured in March, revealed in June.
⢠Warrantlessly accesses records of every phone call that routes through the US thousands of times a day June September
⢠Steals your private data from every major web company (Facebook, Google, Apple, Microsoft, et al) via PRISMJune and pays them millions for it August
⢠Pays major US telecommunications providers (AT&T, Verizon, et al) between $278,000,000-$394,000,000 annually to provide secret access to all US fiber and cellular networks (in violation of the 4th amendment). August
⢠Intentionally weakened the encryption standards we rely on, put backdoors into critical software, and break the crypto on our private communications September
⢠NSA employees use these powers to spy on their US citizen lovers via LOVEINT, and only get caught if they self-confess. Though this is a felony, none were ever been charged with a crime. August
⢠Lied to us again just ten days ago, claiming they never perform economic espionage (whoops!) before a new leak revealed that they do all the time. September
⢠Made over fifteen thousand false certifications to the secret FISA court, leading a judge to rule they âfrequently and systemically violatedâ court orders in a manner âdirectly contrary to the sworn attestations of several executive branch officials,â that 90% of their searches were unlawful, and that they ârepeatedly misled the court.â September September
⢠Has programs that collect data on US Supreme Court Justices and elected officials, and they secretly provide it to Israel regulated only by an honor system. September
Why, the underlings were just following orders, so we canât go after them; but we canât hold the leadership responsible for a few bad apples acting in excess of their authority⌠Just another instance of Schrodingerâs misconduct, nothing to see here.
You brought up the Civil Rights Movement, not me. And Iâll say again- one can criticize Snowdenâs approach and not be on the NSAâs âsideâ, just as one could criticize individual Civil Rightâs figures approaches and not be pro-segregation.
[quote=âCowicide, post:17, topic:9458â]
Heâs responsible for more than that for christâs sake. Why minimize what heâs done?
[/quote]The initial leak and the stories about it were info we already knew about (and in many cases, had ongoing lawsuits over). And Iâm far from one of Rosenâs insiders. Anyone who reads the paper or Boing Boing, or belongs to the EFF and ACLU knew about this stuff.
And I donât think a lot of what 's been leaked since is stuff that should have been leaked.
Sorry, but I canât agree. We might have suspected, but the stonewalling under the guise of âprotecting national security secretsâ prevented further review. This is the entire value of an insider turning whistleblower. It eliminates the ability to obscure, to stall, to obfuscate with semantic trickery.
If you remember, the administration even blocked the viewing of the legal interpretations that they were using to justify much of this activity. When you canât even see the wording of their lawyers, it is impossible to know how far they are stretching the usage, or to challenge it.
