doctorow — 2014-06-04T23:00:08-04:00 — #1
nixiebunny — 2014-06-04T23:25:06-04:00 — #2
Silly girl! Wearing the right clothes is more important than whatever they're teaching in class. Don't you read Vogue?
boundegar — 2014-06-04T23:32:26-04:00 — #3
More importantly, the rules are important, no matter what they are. If people went around wearing leggings, next they would assume it's just fine to bring hard drugs and loaded guns to school. It's like a gateway drug you wear on your ass.
Also, the ban on leggings is probably based on the perfectly reasonable assumption that attractive clothing causes violence against women. The simple solution is the burqa... in cheery school colors! Go Hornets!
diarmaid — 2014-06-04T23:37:43-04:00 — #4
Why is this awesome? A kid breaks some stupid rule, then feels no remorse, and is then lauded for being stupid/stubborn enough to want to do the same again?
Everyone has to follow rules in school.. She should cop herself on.
fuzzyfungus — 2014-06-04T23:39:41-04:00 — #5
This 'think sheet' concept looks like an interesting collision of a concept designed on the theory that the rules are set according to reasonable considerations, a better understanding of which might actually inspire the rulebreaker to reconsider; and the fact that many of the rules are rules Because Reasons, and there simply isn't anything more to understand.
If your rules actually are derived from a set of principles, then codified as concretely and specifically as possible to make uniform administration of justice easier, an exercise in considering the principles you act against in violating a particular rule could actually be useful. If your rules are rules because rulemaking is the prerogative of power, well, maybe you don't want to encourage people to consider the principles they are acting against...
nickyg — 2014-06-04T23:52:44-04:00 — #6
I'm glad school uniforms were never in place when I was in school, but frankly I see why it's a very popular model, including at many of the most prestigious private schools in the USA, and what, most public (and private) schools around the rest of the planet? And geez, if the school has a dress code, is it really such a bad thing? There are 500 gajillion more highly disturbing aspects of public education in the USA to make a scene about IMHO.
oskars — 2014-06-04T23:57:20-04:00 — #7
Because the rule is not just idiotic, it's actively harmful to the students. Young girls have to deal with enough shitty things in the culture that tells them that feeling or associating with anything that could be remotely be interpreted as sexual makes them "impure" or whatever. Schools don't need to pile on, especially when it's something as innocent and innocuous as wearing leggings.
She did nothing wrong, but the teacher decided to punish her for the infraction of being a girl who boys might find attractive. She was well within her rights to tell her school to fuck off.
nickyg — 2014-06-05T00:03:00-04:00 — #8
If the school had a dress code that she was in clear violation of, I hate to break it to you -- she did not have every right to tell them to fuck off. It's well established that students do not have absolute rights on school property -- there is countless law to this effect. You might not agree with it, but those are indeed facts.
Don't get me wrong, I support being a rabble-rouser while in high school, to some degree. There was an epic time, if I do say so myself, where I stole back a confiscated skateboard I had been riding down a hallway in 11th grade from the teacher who took it, jumped out of the first floor window with it in hand, and skated down the hill to a waiting school bus that took me to our other campus. It was RAD. I also got busted, and the whole thing taught me a number of good lessons. But skating down the hallway, despite the fact that it wasn't causing any problems, was against the rules, I should have known better, I broke them, did something silly and rebellious, and then took a little (not too much) heat for it. Isn't that what high school is all about?
One other thing. The school likely has a ban on a variety of different clothing items for both genders that are considered too casual, and yes, in some cases probably too risqué. Something tells me leggings are not being banned exclusively. I bet they also ban guys from wearing low-hanging pants that show off their butts and/or underwear. Is the school doing something wrong there? I certainly don't think so. School isn't always a total experimental free-for-all when it comes to fashion, and yes, having been in school, fashion absolutely IS often a total distraction for students. If schools want to maintain some standards, and are providing a solid education (an important factor to not lose sight of, I get it) then really -- is it such a big deal? And really, is society actually discouraging girls from being sexual and making them feel bad about being attractive? Last time I checked, the vast majority of culture celebrated the female form and the flaunting thereof. If a school goes against that grain, is that really so bad? The girl can wear her leggings outside of school if she wants and her parents let her.
knappa — 2014-06-05T00:15:51-04:00 — #9
There is also a responsibility on the rule-makers to make rules that aren't stupid.
Every fall I have some kid ask me to go to the bathroom - in college. Not exactly preparing them to be fully equal citizens are they?
She should cop herself on.
newliminted — 2014-06-05T00:17:55-04:00 — #10
It's thought-provoking. However tacky I think leggings are, anyone has the freedom to wear them, and I expect a morning watching students come through the front doors that day would have revealed worse offenses in fashion, some actually disruptive or offensive in ways which could be set in concrete rules with clear explanations for why it would be wrong. I used to wear an American Flag which had a peace symbol markered over the the stars. I draped it in front of me at my belt-line and covered it over with a heavy chain. It's hard to say what it meant, but I'm sure it was worse than leggings. It's zero-tolerance/zero-thought rule in school, and staff are firing on the easy targets to show how tough they are without tackling any real problems. She's clearly bright enough to recognize the rule is stupid, and though she will have trouble fighting in the fashion she's chosen, she can walk the Earth free and proud for standing up to stupid.
oskars — 2014-06-05T00:30:39-04:00 — #11
First of all, I'm not talking about it as a legal matter, I couldn't care less about legal precedents regarding school dress codes. I'm saying as a moral matter, the school here is doing something wrong, and she was totally right in protesting it.
As for your skateboard example, that's an entirely different issue. What you did was harmful and dangerous, and the rules against it are entirely sensible. Riding a skateboard down a hallway and jumping out of windows are safety hazards and it is totally fine that a school prohibits it.
You're making a straw man of my argument here: no where did I say that there should be no rules whatsoever, I said that this particular rule is idiotic and harmful, and good on her for protesting it.
If the primary goal of a school is to educate and bring up students in the best way possible, there should be rules, but the rules have to be sensible. If the rules are nonsensical, arbitrary or harmful, the only things they will teach students is to either be rebellious and never follow rules, or it will teach them to feel shameful for accidentally violating arbitrary fiats by people in authority. Both outcomes run entirely counter to what schools should be doing.
As for banning risqué clothing, that's certainly valid in some cases. Girls shouldn't be walking around in bikinis and boys shouldn't be walking around in their underwear. But the ultimate point of these dress codes have to be to teach the students what kind of dress is appropriate in public settings, not to shame students for their bodies. And the point here is that leggings are not risqué! It's a perfectly normal piece of apparel that many people wear to all sorts of places.
And as for this comment:
Are you serious? Western culture, and American culture in particular, is hugely and massively discouraging of girls being sexual creatures. It praises girls who are virgins and shames girls who have sex by calling them "sluts" and "whores". You may not accept this, but I assure: it's absolutely true. Schools are an especially toxic environment for this. Boys who have sex are praised as "players" by their peer groups, but girls who do it are excluded, shamed and bullied.
As a culture, we're fine with seeing images of women in sexual contexts and we're fine with men viewing them, but what we're not nearly as accepting of the women who actually do it. Those women we look down on.
wrybread — 2014-06-05T00:39:22-04:00 — #12
Came here to say the same thing. Without context this whole kerfuffle sounds absurd, but if this is a school (especially a private one) with a dress code that explicitly forbids leggings, which I have a feeling is the case, then put me on the list of folks who don't necessarily think this is a good thing.
But, of course, I still salute her rebelliousness.
But the ultimate point of these dress codes have to be to teach the students what kind of dress is appropriate in public settings, not to shame students for their bodies.
You can argue that the dress code for women at most private schools downplays their sexuality, but I'd argue that the dress code for boys does to the same extent. Personally I don't see your average high school dress code as a matter of sexuality or asexuality, but of simple conformity.
websta — 2014-06-05T00:40:15-04:00 — #13
old — 2014-06-05T00:56:07-04:00 — #14
To be completely fair, Mrs. Rodgers is kind of an asshole.
samwinston — 2014-06-05T00:58:02-04:00 — #15
william_holz — 2014-06-05T01:34:27-04:00 — #16
Because we should be teaching our future adults to think critically and not obey every rule mindlessly?
billstewart — 2014-06-05T01:39:00-04:00 — #17
Back when I was in junior high school, mini skirts had been banned for a couple of years, because they were too short. The maxi skirt came out (or got named, or had been a fad for just long enough for the administration to notice, or something), and they decided they had to ban that too (Safety Hazard, of course! Girls might trip, though high heels were just fine.) The midi skirt didn't bother them, or if it did, they couldn't think up a good reason why.
nanite2000 — 2014-06-05T02:59:23-04:00 — #18
Indeed. Vogue told her that leggings were in this season, and that's what she'll wear dammit! Yay free thinking!
It's strange. It seems that when a school outside the US has a uniform policy, it's to not only help identify students that actually belong at that school, but to also help reduce the inevitable schoolyard bullying that would result from the rich kids with their Nike Airs and YSL shirts toward the WalMart brand clothes the poor kids have to wear.
But when a school in the US has a uniform policy, it's because they're a bunch of small minded fascists.
chuck_holt — 2014-06-05T03:15:08-04:00 — #19
Student's Name: John Doe Grade: 10 Date: 5/20/2014
This is the rule I broke: 1) I failed to act like a howling sub-lower primate when Chloe walked into the classroom wearing leggings. 2) Building off the first infraction, I tackled another male classmate when he lunged at Chloe with his cock out. I also had to step between Chloe and Mr. Carson, the PE teacher, because he was actually drooling a little bit. I'm not 100% sure why Mr. Carson was in our history class, though -- he may have been following Chloe down the hall, but I can't say for sure.
I chose to break this rule because: Hmm, I don't know, maybe because I thought my behavior was what a decent, civil, and responsible person would do.
Who was bothered when I broke this rule? Mrs. Rodgers, because, evidently, she subscribes to the belief that the "best men" also have an impulsive, violent side to them. Besides, holding these fine men (boys) accountable for their own behavior would scar them for life, and deny them their rightful position as our future leaders. Actually, I shouldn't be too hard on Mrs. Rodgers, because, as I understand it, things changed in this school quite a bit after those maniacs mysteriously got elected to the school board and ripped out our science classes in favor of those classes on Creationism where we have to repeat the same Bible verses every day. I understand that the rules regarding leggings and related issues were their idea as well. I imagine it's entirely possible that Mrs. Rogers was a reasonable person before she decided she needed to do whatever was necessary to keep her job.
This is what I could have done instead: This part may be moot, because Mrs. Carson was reading over my shoulder just now. I suspect she's heading to the Principal's office to lobby for my expulsion from school. Nice knowing you, everybody.
d3koi — 2014-06-05T04:29:28-04:00 — #20
Let's not forget that it also reinforces the idea that boys are uncontrollable sexual predators.
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