Lots of claims and assumptions but not one single citation. Fancy that.
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Iâm just checking a few figures (UK prices but Iâm sure they will still be useful)
Big TV - no actual definition on what is a big TV but Tesco considers 39inch to be a large screen TV:
Technika 39E21B-FHD 39 Inch Full HD 1080p Slim LED TV With Freeview = ÂŁ199
Television licence = ÂŁ145.50 a year
A television should last at least five years so 5*145.50=ÂŁ727.50+ÂŁ199=ÂŁ926.50
So thatâs ÂŁ185.30 a year or ÂŁ3.57 a week for something that can help stop you from getting long term severe depression from staring at the walls.
Why do people have a problem with this?
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What do you want a citation on? That people are bad at managing finances, or that people prey on the poor that canât afford stuff with things like rent-to-own, high interest car loans, adjustable rate mortgages, payday loans, etc?
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Is it people that are bad at managing finances, or only poor people? Please be specific. I think you mean âpoor peopleâ considering the context of our discussion. Yes, a citation for that. Along with a citation proving that the poor management of finances is why people are poor.
And, yes, poor people are preyed upon, but a lot of that has to do with the fact that for poor people, there arenât many other options. And Iâd say HEALTHCARE costs and lack of living-wage jobs has way more of an impact on poor people and keeping people poor than do high interest loans, which are only a symptom and not a reason.
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http://boingboing.net/2014/12/08/the-high-cost-of-being-poor.html (donât forget the comments thread)
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Yup. âYouâre poor because youâre bad with money and if youâd just stop being so bad with money, youâd totally not be poor, I promise!â is just another anti-poor, âboot straps!â trope that completely ignores the complex and varied reasons why people are actually poor and stay that way.
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I dare say most people. Lots of middle class arenât on public assistance but still live beyond their means, have lots of CC debt etc. The original thread though was about those on welfare.
Yes those other things also affect them.
My point was people wanted those on public assistance to be more fiscally responsible. I donât think limiting their choices is going to help much. I think educational programs might. From my personal experience growing up during the recession in the 80s, we didnât have many luxuries. My dad sold his motorcycle and drove a beat up truck and our car was far from new. We grew a lot of our food in 3 large gardens. We didnât have cable or a VCR and the TV we had was a gift from my grandparents (rather a modest one). And while I consider my parents pretty good role models for fiscal responsibility (much better than me), my mom still smoked (though to be fair that was before the sin tax craziness) and my dad drank a decent amount of beer. So even they were afforded some luxuries.
ETA:
Youâre right it goes beyond just that and is way more complicated, but can we at least recognize the personal responsibility aspect? It certainly doesnât help to not be frugal if you canât afford to. Some of the most miserly people I know are the most well off (though they werenât always).
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Oh, okay, so no citations then.
I didnât say that was the only cause, but it is a factor.
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Yup. Still no citations, though.
Sorry at work right now, I guess I will have to do research later. What am I looking to cite? Spending money you donât have is bad?
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My other carâs a pogo stick. With tassels.
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Yeah, I think I was kind of implying thatâŚ
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Iâm especially puzzled by the idea that there are a whole lot of women out there who have babies to qualify for government assistance so they donât have to go out and find employment, implication being that being a stay-at-home parent in a crappy apartment is easier than working some low-wage job. My wife and I have two kids and I can honestly say that going to work often felt like a relaxing getaway after spending time at home with fussy toddlers.
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If weâre going to hold public assistance recipients to such a high standard, we should be forcing politicians who take our public dollars to the same sorts of restrictions.
Why should they be eating steak at the Capital Grille on our dime? Same goes for drug testing- it should be mandatory for everyone who aspires to public office.
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I wish all those fiscal conservatives who think being poor is âso awesomeâ would try it out for themselves.
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Drug testing is a waste of time and money - for anybody. There are many thousands upon thousands of drugs in the world which all do different things. Yet the popular tests are made to detect an arbitrary sampling of about 10-12 which are popular/infamous for no particularly compelling reason. These drugs existing as âa social problemâ is itself a socially self-constructed problem. It has nothing to do with how safe or appealing they may or not be.
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I donât consider myself âfiscally conservativeâ, but this is what I do. I donât believe in money, so I just avoid having or using it.
I put up with rather a lot of this. I usually have no money or resources, yet people often simply refuse to believe it. Itâs weird, because I donât consider myself flashy or materialistic. I donât have a car, or television, or nice clothes. Yet, in most social settings, people seem to assume that I am a posh person slumming it, for whatever reason. This causes weird classist clashes when I get some menial work somewhere and am singled out. Nobody agrees about what my function should be (or, in their terms, my âroleâ - what âkind of personâ I supposedly am) and it becomes more prudent for me to simply leave. Itâs weird when people insist that I am well-off enough to be jealous of, when I really have nothing, and tell them so.
If this is indeed accurately describes your economic situation, thatâs awesome. Living within ones means (whether imposed intentionally or externally) is a good thing.
But the fact of the matter is that chronic poverty goes beyond financial irresponsibility; I am hesitant to even describe it as âpovertyâ, per se. Rather, most of the people we call poor (and much of the middle class, for that matter) live in a state of persistent economic precarity. If someone is doing well, they can weather a family emergencies, maybe even two or three. These include things like deaths in the family, incarcerations, loss of jobs, protracted illness or injury, birth of a child, or something as simple as a car breaking down.
Iâm pretty middle class, but if one or two of those things happen to me at the same time, Iâm hooped. I am pretty sure the same is true of you, as well.
And for the poorest of the poor? Something as mundane as a sick child can tip the scales.
Do some people abuse the system? Sure. But that doesnât mean we donât need it, and it certainly doesnât mean we need to demonize the people who access these resources.
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IâŚalready explained this. A few times. Seriously? Christ.
