You can eat burritos without a firearm?

[jlw]

@Glitch

It’s almost as if Chipotle is more okay with the possibility of being robbed at gunpoint for the meagre contents of a cash register (and who pays with cash these days?) than they are with the possibility of a “responsible gun owner” trying to intervene to stop the robbery!

I would rather see @beschizza hand robbers all the cash in our awesome safe than have one of our readers start spraying bullets around our office trying to help him out.

I’m guessing @funruly would sign up tho.

[Kevin_Harrelson]

@Brainspore

The worst mass shooting in living memory was at Virginia Tech in 2007, where a number of armed police were already on site. There were also armed personnel at Columbine High School and at a number of other mass shootings you could name. It turns out that the threat of retaliation isn’t a big deterrent for violent psychotics already bent on committing suicide.

Exactly my point. Which building were the police in? The students sure were unarmed.

Columbine – AFAIK, there was ONE police offer already on the scene, and apparently in a different part of the school, meaning that he had to get in his car and drive to where the shooting was – plenty of time.

I should note that, according to Wikipedia, the “police response” was at 11:22 am. The suicides of two of the perpetrators was as approximately 12:08 pm. Wow, that is 45 minutes without these two particular guys seeing a policeman.

[Chione]

Not to mention that I’d very much prefer that if I were in a place where a shooting were to occur there would be the absolute minimum amount of people shooting indiscriminately.

Considering that even the cops are not to be trusted to not shoot innocent bystanders (or each other) while taking part in a gunfight, no matter how one-sided, I’m just not going to trust some random gun-toting arse who has watched all the seasons of CSI: Miami and has severe delusions of adequacy to be able to actually do anything useful.

[Glitch]

The problem with this entire line of argumentation is that it assumes that 1) psychotic murderers are commonplace and 2) it’s more efficient and produces fewer deaths to have guns everywhere so that private citizens can shoot back at attackers, rather than pre-emptively treat mentally ill people and prevent the attacks from ever taking place.

[crenquis]

@Glitch

Every gun enthusiast who spouts off about “criminals” like this is delusional. They honestly think “bad guys” are out there somewhere, lurking, ready to pounce, leaping from the shadows to rob them while they’re getting a fast food burrito.

Thanks to the NSA’s Project Dreamscape we have footage of one of the guy’s dreams:

cowboy scene from a christmas story (my hero)

‘cept they probably will be shooting several bystanders’ eyes out.

Edit: Note to self, “Don’t wear striped “bandit” shirt to TX Chipotles”

[daneel]

@Glitch

At worst, someone is dead - maybe the robber, maybe John

In that case, you could prise his gun from his dead, cold hands.

[Brainspore]

@Kevin_Harrelson

Exactly my point. Which building were the police in? The students sure were unarmed.

“More guns are the best way to prevent mass shootings” is a pretty wacky plan when you run the stats. The number of Americans killed in mass shootings is already dwarfed by the number of Americans killed by accidental shootings, and that’s without putting a loaded firearm in every kindergarten class.

[Glitch]

Dangit, I was all prepared to respond with the Barbecue Scene from Major Payne, but I can’t find a half-decent version of the clip anywhere.

[jlw]

@Brainspore

“More guns are the best way to prevent mass shootings” is a pretty wacky plan when you run the stats. The number of Americans killed in mass shootings is already dwarfed by the number of Americans killed by accidental shootings, and that’s without putting a loaded firearm in every kindergarten class.

Aside from Zombie fiction and various other fantasy, I can’t think of anything to point at that shows armed civilians have resulted in a safer america. I will not put a bunch of Americans with Winchesters up against a bunch of Americans in the US armed services. They are pretty well trained and have better weapons. Incidents where the US has not shown restraint far out number the recent oddity of one that I can think of.

[crenquis]

Somewhat old story, but best that I saw in a 30 second search…
‘Disturbing trend’ seen in negligent discharges of weapons in Afghanistan - News - Stripes

In what military officials call negligent discharges, last year troops mistakenly fired their weapons 24 times in Afghanistan, injuring 18 and killing four. So far this year, five troops have been wounded and two more have been killed in 16 accidental discharges.

I'm sure that the TX Freedom Fighters are much better trained.

[Shuck]

@Kevin_Harrelson

Columbine – AFAIK, there was ONE police offer already on the scene, and apparently in a different part of the school, meaning that he had to get in his car and drive to where the shooting was – plenty of time.

Nope. There were TWO armed police stationed at the school (at least one of whom was supposed to be with the students in the cafeteria), and one of them exchanged fire with one of the gunmen early on in the event and failed to stop him. Likewise, in at least one of the mass mall shootings, one of the armed shoppers who was there at the time came forward afterwards and absurdly took credit for stopping the gunman, despite not actually even firing at him (the gunman took his own life, as is common). Given that many of these shootings are done by gunmen who are looking to die - they’re seeking to commit an act from which they “can’t come back” - the threat of armed people at their destinations does absolutely nothing to dissuade them.

[Brainspore]

Not to mention Fort Freakin’ Hood, which experienced not one but TWO mass shootings in a span of five years despite the fact that it was a heavily guarded military facility where virtually everyone was trained to use firearms.

[tudza]

Insisting that carrying rifles about in public seems a bit extreme, but some push back on this is necessary.

Say you live in an open-carry state or you went to the trouble of obtaining a concealed weapon permit. You still can’t carry into a bar, which makes sense, but that means you have to leave your gun home. Then every business in your area decides to bar people with guns, which is their right, but that means even fewer times you can carry. Then, like many places have proposed, your local government bans carrying in parks etc.

Soon you have the situation where it’s all fine to carry a weapon but for all practical purposes you can’t go anywhere.

[Thecorrectline]

And that’s why we see so many attacks on police precincts? No, sorry. The folks who want to kill as many as they can before they suicide seek out schools, malls, restaurants - environments where armed response will take several minutes to arrive, and they can expect the vast majority of people to be unarmed.

[Brainspore]

@Thecorrectline

The folks who want to kill as many as they can before they suicide seek out schools, malls, restaurants - environments where armed response will take several minutes to arrive, and they can expect the vast majority of people to be unarmed.

Again, that theory was disproven by FORT HOOD. Twice. In a span of five years.

[Glitch]

I’ve already addressed this argument.

Mental illness needs to be identified and treated BEFORE people grab a gun and go on a killing spree. The answer isn’t to arm ourselves to the teeth so we can stop violence once it has started, but rather to prevent the violence from happening beforehand.

[Thecorrectline]

Have you ever been on a military base? Besides being enormous (Ft Hood is one of Americas largest bases) firearms are tightly controlled - no one is randomly walking around with a gun.

EDIT - I see we crossed posts. You may want to learn a bit more about military bases in general, and Ft. Hood in particular. To reiterate, on a base such as Ft. Hood it is going to take quite some time for armed assistance to arrive, and there is virtually no chance of encountering a concealed carrier - a fact that someone stationed on base would be well aware of.

[anon73629133]

At gunpoint is the only time you’d find me eating from Chipotle.

[Glitch]

@Thecorrectline

Have you ever been on a military base? Besides being enormous (Ft Hood is one of Americas largest bases) firearms are tightly controlled - no one is randomly walking around with a gun.

Randomly? No. Purposefully? Yes.

There are these guys called MPs - maybe you’ve heard of them? It stands for “Military Police”? They’re the guys with assault rifles who guard the gates and are on active patrols throughout military bases?

[Brainspore]

So you’re suggesting that the best way to protect ourselves from mass shootings is to ensure that elementary schools are more heavily armed than military bases? Frankly I don’t think that’s a very reasonable expectation.