3D printed guns just cleared a major legal hurdle

I guess it depends which stance the Kremlin thinks will be the most disruptive for America. :wink:

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When the civil war erupts, it will be the side with the tanks that win, not the guys with the homemade pea-shooters.

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Guns should be banned because there are too few people mature enough to use them properly in the US of A. Fear of the government and your neighbors is no justification to have a firearm that more than likely will be used to kill a member of your own family before an invader or government agent.

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the last legal hurdle left: Can the police use them to murder black people? If so I expect widespread acceptance.

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Illegal only if you resell those guns, or if you are building machine guns.

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Probably none, but could have been used as an additional charge if someone was caught committing a crime with one of these guns.

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True, but I believe in most cases, like in the example the carpenter guy had, the internal guts are all metal, and most likely off the shelf parts. Certainly the barrel is, as you need specialized tools to make rifling. Just like most modern pistols now have polymer plastic grips/frames, and even pistol carbines are often more plastic than metal like the CZ Scorpion.

The Liberator is the exception, to this. But also consider that it’s frailty is a safety feature. I honesty am curious as to its velocity. Bullets are almost completely safe when fired if there isn’t any pressure build up. Like if a round just cooks off in a fire, it will more or less bounce harmlessly off you. I would think if the Liberator failed, it would not have allowed the pressure to build up enough to do much damage (and the .380 round is very small.) But no, in general I wouldn’t fire an all plastic gun for anything bigger than a .380, and I don’t think anyone is suggesting that one does.

It is even easier to make a shot gun out of basically two pipes and a nail. Look up guns from the Ireland/UK conflict and you can see some pretty ingenious things made in garages.

If you’re a machinist you may enjoy the Forgotten Weapons channel as he tears down some really rare and weird things. Like Chinese knock offs from the 30s, where the machinist were skilled, but didn’t know a lot about fire arms, replicating somethings like sights that had a function, but are now just for decoration - too look like the original. Including screws that held nothing in.

OH I agree this is totally impractical for crime. I mean really, if one is that worried about it, you dispose of the firearm after the crime. Take it a part, drive a lake and chuck the parts in 5 different spots, bury them in the woods, just throw in the damn trash if its trash day the next day. This concern about “untraceable guns” really is more CSI fantasy than real life

It is also impractical for most enthusiast, as I said above the cost to get set up and make your own stuff isn’t really cost efficient due to economy of scale. In my example the 1911 frame they had in the video you can get for ~$200 bucks already made. You can get whole complete guns for ~$500 (I have two I got new for ~$350 each). And if that same machine made say AR lowers, you can buy those milled and anodized for $35-50 all day long. It isn’t efficient or practical in most cases. Especially since you can’t sell them (unless you get a manufacturers license.)

BUT - it’s probably fun if you want to build your own. And there already is a group of hobbyist doing this. The extra cost is just part of the hobby and the joy of making.

Yes, exactly.

You know how many millions (billions?) of rounds are used ever year by regular people vs in crime? Next think of the cost of setting up a system that itemized each round, which round went in which box into which lot and then track and trace that from the factory, to the distributor, to walmart, then scanned to the customer. Of course you now need system to log and track each customer buying stuff. It’s rather ridiculous when you think about the holes we have in the NICS system which is the background check system already in place. It really is one of those things where it sounds logical, but is crazy impractical. I’d rather spend the time, money, and effort revitalizing the worst areas of the nation.

And if you are lazer engraving them, I bet you can defeat this with some brasso and a dremel. Or finding old ammo (you can still find surplus WWII stuff floating around.) Or steal your ammo. Or get it from a third party, just like they do the guns.

The microstamping on the head of hammer/firing pin is a more practical idea, which again is easily defeated.

Massachusetts’s had a similar system set up where each new gun had to include a fired case, which you were to mail in and they had a database for “ballistic finger printing”, hoping to match a found round to one in the database. It was shut down after 15 years for never solving a case. (Granted this has more room for holes, but it is an example of the impracticality.)

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Welcome to BoingBoing! :grin:

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black-mirror-in-future

Also… another gun thread. So much will be solved! /s

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Also, because the CDC’s research is only useful if made public. No way to hide what’s being researched, the way there is in your other examples.

Please let all the locals in Afghanistan know that the Russians won

What if I told you that the regulations in place on machine guns already limit the number of people who own them? Many more would buy them if they weren’t in place.

Just as fewer people will own them if regulations limit this supply stream.

Given that there’s no real use for these in general private ownership - like novichok - it’s a benefit to society to limit the harm that larger distribution will most surely cause.

Reasonable gun owners don’t need them - those who want them are immediately suspect.

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What are we talking about here? Machine guns or 3D printers or CNC Machines or 3D files?

It is already 100% legal to make your own firearm. You can’t make NFA items (with out the proper licenses), including machine guns, so that isn’t the issue.

Yes, having a $1700 machine that makes it easier to make something means more people may end up taking up the hobby, but as I pointed out in the post you quote, and above, doing so isn’t very economical.

Nobody is tracing the chips in my cell phone for any reason. You can’t find my destroyed phone and find a chip with serial number on it and trace it back to the phone it was put in, much less me. You could probably figure it where it was made and when. I don’t think that even begins to accomplish what you suggest.

FWIW, they DO print Lot numbers on boxes of ammo, but that is for QC and possible recalls if it turns out there is a bad batch made. Also some ammo has a year date on the case rim and usually manufacturer.

I don’t care how it’s produced. What are we talking about? Saving Lives.

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I’ve got a list at work. If subpoenaed I can tell which OEM purchased our chip. The OEM can tell which distributor got the device, and probably the device’s MAC address.

I’m only suggesting serialization as a means of giving detectives breadcrumbs. Not as a method of absolute enforcement or preemptive monitoring of all transactions.

Yea, the industry has about half of what they need already in place. They need a database and a step of individual serialization to close on this. Motivation is lacking and will probably require new federal regulation. This isn’t something I’ve plucked out of thin air, but it’s a proposal that is in the works, and I hope becomes a Assembly Bill in California.

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Do you have examples of this being put into practice?

I’ve heard proposals for microstamping. I suppose microprinting would be similar to that. You’re right it wouldn’t be “hard” to laser engrave something on on the rim. But it also wouldn’t be hard to remove it. And I am still not sure how you will track it past the retailer. Unlike your chips going into a specific device, which needs to be tracked because a bad batch of chips may result in a recall, that isn’t an issue here.

(Then there is a bigger issue you’re penalizing the vast majority to try to go after the small minority of criminals, but hey, clearly Machiavellian means wins out some times for some people.)

How what is produced?

Trying to limit 3D printers, milling machines, or 3D files isn’t saving lives.

Limiting the production and distribution of firearms and insuring irresponsible and criminal potential owners don’t have access to firearms or their production equipment will save lives. Production should require a license. And just like making a car - if you make one - you need to get it inspected. And registered.

Just like driving a car - you need to be licensed and show responsibility and be over a certain age. If you have a restraining order - they should search your home for firearms and confiscate them while the issue is being adjudicated. Certain types of weapons associated with mass shootings should be outlawed. No one needs an automatic weapon. No one needs an arsenal - we can quibble over what that means. Hell - you can’t even buy fireworks in many cities and far fewer people die from them.

You know - they should be well regulated.

edit - like the founders practiced:

you might be surprised how much will show up in an X-ray crystallography, as the heat from engraving can alter a metal deeply. and if you file enough of it off the cartridge may no longer operate correctly under pressure. It’s certainly possible to thwart the system, but I think it’s hard once a casing is in the hands of a competent forensics lab.

I generally like tracking mechanisms that don’t violate our 4th amendment rights, rather than total surveillance state as most assume is required.

Every law has costs and consequences that impact more than just the criminals. I each law we make ought to be carefully considered and the harm and benefits should be weighed.

For example, a vaccine law prevents sickness in only a small minority of people, so why make the majority go through the cost, pain, and inconvenience? because it is in the interest of public health, and sick or crippled people are a burden on our society and drag out economy down. Healthy people are more productive.

IKR? It’s scary, I find myself waking up in the future EVERY MORNING! :joy:

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