just stick your hand in the mitt, and the bullet ants will make you a man.
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What a fascinating, modern, occult ritual. Should definitely be voluntary, but otherwise reminds me of some OTO, A∴A∴, or OGD performance.
Hand. Okay. Glad I asked for clarification as to what appendage went in the mitt
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Ha! I think I get it…
@Mal_Tosevite wasn’t actually saying anything about rape, more the how articles about sex assault always someone show up to #notallmen and yell about men being victims and women being perpetrators, too.
Mostly a joke, I think?
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I never ever saw the sense in being hazed to be included. I’d rather not be included, thank you very much.
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I didn’t see it as a joke, but as a poor example. That just because women do it to, that makes hazing ok or less of a big deal? Which I guess some people do with even more awful things like rape? I dunno, perhaps one will care to enlighten us.
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It’s pretty traditional on R/Vs. I’ve been on US, Brasilian, Mexican and French R/Vs and they all do it.
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What do you research? I really want to explore the abyss of the oceans.
Welcome, shellback!
I was a Marine Technician on ships for a long time. Basically a support person who’s a liaison between ship, crew, and scientists. Think of the ship as a floating laboratory for hire, so the work that’s done really is all over the place (both in topic and location). Gravity and magnetic surveys (before satellites made it easy), ocean temperature/salinity surveys, sensor deployment and recovery, ocean bottom seismology, ROV platform, ocean biology, etc. There’s this notion of Oceanography as being a bunch of scuba divers sometimes, but really it’s often about putting sensors in the water (sometimes miles down), and collecting water (from miles down).
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It didn’t even occur to me that my initial comment could be considered akin to the MRA “not all men” derailment tactic.
I just have an issue with the use of arbitrary overgeneralizations, no matter who they are foisted upon: it’s highly fallacious reasoning.
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That’s cool. My dad was on the USS Tanner (named after Zero Tanner) during Vietnam, and they were basically mapping the ocean floor all over the South Pacific. He has this really neat water proof topographical/what ever you call a map showing the depths of the southern tip of Vietnam.
I didn’t see your comment being like that, but I guess anyone can misconstrue something.
I did see their reply as just that.
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I’ll have to ask my dad how many he did.
They do it in the merchant navy, so I’m not that surprised that research vessels do it too.
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Ant glove thing
Sateré-Mawé bullshit? I miss your point.
Regarding the “male” comment, I am aware that women can be assholes, too.
I do think “hazing” can be though of as a bullshit version of the (mostly male) rites of passage of more primitive cultures. If @Melizmatic or anyone else thinks this association is arbitrary or unjustified, that’s quite all right by me. That’s what opinions are for.
The difference to me between modern hazing and tribal rituals is that there is more of a point to the latter; if the tribe’s idea of manhood is to be a proven hardened warrior badass, then the boy who suceeds in enduring whatever dangers, pain or mutilation they come up with as a coming of age test is supposed to come out of it proud of the achievement with the scars to prove it, and celebrated by all.
The same kind of thing might be argued in favor of Full Metal Jacket / Elite Squad style drill instructor mistreatment and suffering as a test of grit and elimination process for those who enlist for the sort of job based around subservience, enduring hardship and facing danger routinely. Primitive perhaps, but again there is at least some shred of justification. I guess it’s effective at weeding out people who wouldn’t be very good at it anyway.
But forced, public harassment of people because they’re new at a college or aboard a boat at the wrong time? It’s going to take some good convincing for me to believe this sort of practice rises above institutionalized bullying.
If there’s a lesson to be learned from the humiliation of playing the shit-smeared homophobic slur to the amusement of others, I don’t know what it is.
And I’m sure some of the humiliated can actually derive enjoyment from the thought that today’s impotent anger at the demeaning treatment can be chanelled into a sort of self-perpetuating misguided vengeance when they get the chance to play the shit-smearing homophobe towards the next generation. But it’s not a very good justification for any of it.
Bonding? Sure, shared suffering can enhance a useful “us vs. them” tribal (again) mentality. But I see no reason why a ritual of forced kindness that you have to pay forward later would work any less for morale than the current tradition of forced brutality. Bake the newbies a nice cake or something. You’re already in drag, make it a real party.
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[quote]If @Melizmatic or anyone else thinks this association is arbitrary or unjustified, that’s quite all right by me. That’s what opinions are for.
[/quote]
Actually that wasn’t my point, as each organization in which any type of hazing occurs are all different.
I was merely pointing out that rites of passage are not limited to “only men.”
The process that I went through to get my letters was voluntary, not coerced.
I knew what I was signing up for from the start.
Furthermore, my line sisters and I had an internal code about what we would and would not tolerate as pledges;
Ie, we would do nothing illegal, nothing degrading or demoralizing, and nothing that could result in injury or death.
We were hazed, but only in ways that we allowed.
Needless to say, its a very different situation from organizations such as the military where members have a greater amount of power over the inductees.
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Ah. So the way to avoid accusations of hazing is to adopt tribalism.
I somehow managed to avoid it when I went to Australia 20+ years ago. I don’t think I would be in favor of it now, as in, “You had your shot!”
My intention was never to express that hazing was a male-only thing, which would be absurd, but that I feel it’s a practice derived from historically “male-mostly” cultural leanings. And often made worse in the transition. Hoping I’ve managed to make that opinion clearer.
I also didn’t mean to single out or refute your own sorority experience in any way, since I know nothing about it in general and in particular each experience is of course personal and not up for debate.
When I mentioned college it was based on my personal university memories (middle class urban Brazil, 15 years ago) which is/was a culture without the USAian concept of fraternities, and in which new-student hazing wasn’t optional at all.
My own experience of that was a fairly benign, joyless and even perfunctory affair with pretty typical features: schoolyard-bully different-shaming and naming, having mostly washable paint thrown on face, hair and clothes and having to beg at street corners to “buy” back your wallet and shoes, nonsensical allegiance-swearing, nothing too scarring or otherwise memorable. It does get ocasionally violent, rapey, drunk-drowny or otherwise abusive so I’m not a fan.
Funny thing is, the real coming of age ritual for my demographic was being accepted to a good university in the first place. Competition is fierce so usually only those whose families could afford good private schools from childhood and three years of additional test-admission-oriented classes manage to get into the most desired public (generally meaning good and free-as-in-beer) universities. So there’s already a fair share of bizarre mostly-voluntary celebratory rituals involved for those who make it, like public mud baths and hair shaving.
The hazing seems like an afterthough after all that, but it’s still a thing (and compulsory at that) apparently for no better reason other than habit and perhaps “I had to suffer so I’ll do it to someone”. And yes, all that applies to both sexes.
Am I rambling? I am rambling.
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