46% of Scots want to separate from the UK; 43% want to remain

Unfortunately, I suspect hard economic reality may dampen this: I don’t have the figures, but I strongly suspect that the Scottish economy depends more on free trade with the rest of the UK than it does on free trade with the EU. (And I’m a hard Remainer with strong sympathies with the independence movement.)


Scotland leaves UK with no deal and they will be in a much stronger position to negotiate a fantastic new trade deal with them! /s


Please don’t let this word catch on. It’s all a bit Dark Crystal and Parliament has too many evil Muppets already, thanks.


Almost certainly correct and, what’s more, if they join the EU as a new country they are forced to promise to adopt the Euro at some point. This may be a sticking point, even with those who want remain and Scottish independence. Plus, just like there is an inevitability to some sort of non-soft border in Ireland if UK leaves the EU, if Scotland joins the EU there will need to be a hardish border between England and Scotland.


Perversely, I can sort of see that happening, if England is as dependent on energy from Scottish oil and gas as I imagine it might be (I really should know this stuff) – but only if Scotland doesn’t rejoin the EU (because if it did, it would be bound by whatever deal or lack of one eventually comes to pass between the UK and the EU).

Talking of energy, I can’t remember reading anything about the effect of Brexit on things like the cross-channel interconnector. Have I just not noticed it, or is it flying on the radar? Or is it simply not significant enough to mention?

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But they all re-united in the end, didn’t they?


That’s true. I just get the horrible feeling we’re at the prologue of the movie at the minute.


There are a million and one things that are “not significant enough to mention” but which will wreak havoc in reality, come Brexit. If anyone had compiled a list of all the agencies and other things of this ilk (like the interconnect) that would be stymied by Brexit, all the jobs that would go from UK to EU, all the trade that would be lost, all the farmers that will go out of business, all the medicines that will be lost (not just shipments during Brexit, but new medicine approvals and development/tiral/approval co-operations across the EU, and so on and so on, during the referendum, who knows if the result would have been different.


But that’s just Remoaners stoking up Project Fear!



Sure it would be different.
If the campaign had been truthful.

But that wasn’t in [the hedge fund managers] interest, so we’re crashing out on Halloween without even a shout of Trick or Treat regardless.


“I vote not to fuck everything up, please.”



There are farms that actually straddle the Irish border. No one seems to have a clue how that’s going to work after October.


True as it is, I’m afraid I simply cannot like that post
There was a way to present those things/lists factually in a way that might have had some effect, rather than as nebulous ‘forecasts’ and prognostications that were in fact project fear (even if genuinely believed by the forecasters).

Of course, the cheating liars of Vote Leave would have labelled it as project fear anyway and claimed none of these things would be affected - just like they claimed we’d have the easiest deal in the world and would stay in the customs union and all the rest of their complacent false reassurances, which have now morphed into ‘no deal is the only acceptable Brexit’

I agree, but let me say there is a difference between factual and truthful. What each side believed to be the truth - or claimed to be the truth whether they believed it or not - was not factual. Nobody presented many facts during the referendum just ‘truths’.

And ETA:
(And I’m all played out on this after today - seeing Boris shamelessly electioneering on TV tonight, and reading in today’s Guardian how the chances of stopping him or Brexit are now almost extinct.)


I’m going to bed - to sleep, perchance to dream


I think the differences between political facts and truths and actual facts and truths is a conversation for another day :wink:

But the disconnect was there, absolutely, and Scotland has remained mostly a voice of reason throughout the whole Shitshow.


You are correct on both points. G’night.


“United Kingdom” refers to the whole package, as in, The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, to give it it’s full title.

Looks like he’s planning to stay in power no matter what until 31 Oct (Brexit date). UK constitution is pathetically weak - even with Parliament voting him out, he is looking good to stay in long enough.



ASSHAT ftfy.