A beginner's guide to the Redpill Right

No, they’re not, but the narratives often are (which is why they’re useful for people who need to motivate or be motivated). What I was going for there is that the oversimplified modern narrative of “Republicans racist/bad” and “Democrats progressive/good” is at odds with the narrative of a century or so ago, and that the current speed of politics and information exchange is going to churn through such narratives much more rapidly, making them far less useful.

It wasn’t my intention to mock at all, and if I managed to do so anyway, it was with a certain amount of affection - I spend a lot of time there. You’re absolutely correct, overall tumblr user demographics skew younger than any other social media platform (something like 6% adult users, vs. ≈67% for Facebook). But I don’t think that the members of this young cohort are necessarily asserting their own identities “independently of the definitions they’ve received,” [emphasis mine] I think that many of them are assembling their identities based upon the plethora of finely-detailed definitions that they’ve received. Their grandparents had “Republican/Democrat;” their parents had various shadings of left, right, progressive, and conservative; and they’ve grown up in a world where, for example, the “gay rights” identity nomenclature of the post-Stonewall era has been parsed into an initialism that includes (when I last checked) eight different shadings of sexual orientation and gender identity, some of which are at each others’ figurative throats.

The issue with continuing to define a broadly polarized “left/right” split fundamentally in terms of oppression is exactly what we’re seeing now: people are fighting over what it means to be oppressed while living in the most dominant country on the planet, because in many ways, “oppression” has become a coin of legitimacy. There are without question obvious and unequivocal forms of oppression baked into the system under which we all currently labor, and there’s also been quite a lot of bleed-through from “oppressed” into “aggrieved” and even “uncomfortable.” So when obvious oppression gets lumped in with - or at least put on the same shelf as - somewhat questionable projects like “microaggression” and “triggering,” you get the odd and disturbing spectacle of white male gamers and MRAs clamoring about their own “oppression,” when what they really are is uncomfortable and aggrieved. I guarantee you you’d find some in the so-called “Redpill Right” who’ve adopted the same terminology of solidarity and oppression…just not in the way you’re using it.

Which is the thorny problem, for everyone: it seems to me that a lot of energy is being siphoned off to defend traditionally leftist linguistic postures from folks who - basically - have co-opted them. My suggestion is that any reliance on polarizing terminology - e.g., this properly belongs to “the left,” that properly belongs to “the right” - is indicative of a deeply problematic, fundamental flaw in the entire political discourse (and beneath that, the philosophical discourse, but I’ve already rambled on far too long here).

So yes, I can understand what you mean by it. I just don’t think it’s particularly helpful or useful anymore - if it ever was.

Like the Koch Brothers?

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I see you joined Boing Boing today just to comment here in this one thread.

I guess the /redpill trolls are now arriving.

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One conspiracy about “cultural Marxism” is that paranoid types often associate anything related to critical theory to involvement of the Frankfurt School, when there have been forms of critical theory before and after this, many of which didn’t have anything to do with Marxism.

There is also a bit of paradoxical self-loathing involved here, because the tendency to pick apart culture to trace Frankfurt School influence is itself engaging in a similar sort of cultural critique. But they like to distance themselves from that, despite appearing to espouse ideas similar to critical thinking, cultural exegesis, etc. It gets funny, I could talk about Foucault or Derrida and they likely think I’m trolling them before I sneak off to pray at a shrine to Marx.

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The fact that I joined today to comment on an article doesn’t make me a “troll” or make my opinions less legitimate. Registration was required for me to leave a comment, so I registered. Isn’t that how all Boing Boing users start out?

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In a sense, although the Koch Brothers are mostly discussed in connection with their financial contributions to political causes which Objectivist heroes aren’t really “supposed” to do. They’re supposed to just invent stuff and make money.

If you’re from the redpill subreddit, saw the link to the post about this there, and then came over to defend redpill ideology, you’re right, it doesn’t make you inherently a trolley. It is highly suggestive about your motivations for coming here and whether you’ll stay and continue to be part of the overall community though.

When BB posts about guns, for example, we often get a lot of suddenly new members here to defend gun ownership that are then never heard from again.

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Do any nonfictional versions of these people exist?

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I did not come from the red-pill subreddit (so what if I had?). I’m just someone familiar with a number of the redpill movements and philosophies. I saw an article to which I wanted to respond, so I registered. I don’t see why this is a problem or makes me a troll.

It’s a work of fiction expressing an ideal. It’s not really supposed to exist - it’s a vision Rand felt people should strive for.

Objectivists would be great if they built society upon science instead of finance. Science is objective - finance is for animals who need a cute ritual for playing status games over resources.

That’s not the problem with Objectivism, as I see it (I’m what you might call a sympathizer). Most Objectivists tend to be IT/computer/engineer/math types and are extremely enthusiastic about the hard sciences. The heroes of Rand’s Atlas Shrugged - John Galt and Howard Rearden - are inventors who created a new type of engine and supermetal, respectively. The main problem is it’s an “autistic” philosophy, which, like its polar opposite, Marxism, ignores some ingrained human flaws and tendencies that aren’t convenient to its absolutist vision. There is also some cult-like behavior centering around an idolization of Ayn Rand that I find distasteful.

I appreciate boingboing for many reasons, but one is they introduce me to things like this. As was the case with ‘MRAs’ I never heard of the ‘redpill right’. I’ve encountered the narratives and the people before, but didn’t know they had a name.

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FTFY

Calling it autistic is an insult to the people here who are on the spectrum, and are capable of empathy, compassion, and humanist ethics. To use the term the way you have is virtually slanderous.

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I meant what I wrote. A hugely disproportionate number of Objectivists are firmly (and proudly) on that spectrum you mentioned. I never said they aren’t capable of empathy or ethics - you did. The whole point of Objectivism is it is supposed to serve as an ethical framework, so it’s the opposite of amorality. As for my use of the term, if you’re offended, I really couldn’t care any less. Why? I’m one of those evil “red pill” types the author warned you about.

My impression was it was to serve as a justification for selfishness (in that regard, not far from Libertarianism).

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Hardly! It’s autistic qualities are IMO the best thing about it.

Overcoming human flaws and tendencies is the entire point of any worthwhile endeavor. Not unlike helping people to cure or manage physical diseases, it’s perfectly fine to help design instinctive behaviors out of people.

It’s hard to claim that Marxism is the “polar opposite” of Objectivism, since the two don’t inhabit the same space. Conceivably, one could consider the two in terms of a dichotomy between individual and class, but even then it’s not entirely clear what you mean by your statement.

In any case, the trouble with Objectivism isn’t that it’s espoused by naive idealists, who don’t fully account for “ingrained human flaws”, but rather that it’s used as self-justification by the privileged. Pretending that (American) society is a meritocracy is cool when one gets to both define “merit” and decide who has it.

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I don’t think Objectivism has as much to do with the right as with the left, except that it substituted elitist assumptions for the egalitarian assumptions of the left.

I haven’t read enough of Rand or Stirner to compare her egoism with his, though, or enough of Rand to compare her idea of withdrawal to Galt’s Gulch with syndicalist ideas of the general strike.

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I didn’t say it overcomes human flaws. I said it ignores them. Ignoring basic human tendencies is always a recipe for disaster. It’s the reason why every Marxist experiment ends in dictatorship - Marxism ignores the intensity and corrupting nature of human ambition.