A law prof responds to students who anonymously complained about #blacklivesmatter tee

I’ve been chewing on this for a while now. I think most people wear camouflage, and many, many people have left in tatters behind them any thoughts that society is useful.

The BLM movement - well c’mon, this should have provoked an immense introspection in the USA - seems to have been made into a bumper sticker movement, with people failing to look into the depths of the issue.

And check this video out - seriously - click through and watch - a white audience is left unresponsive when challenged whether they would be happy to be treated as they knowingly allow black people to be treated.

I’m beyond surprise.

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I’m guessing that’s this video?

I like the point Elliot makes, and how bluntly she does so. I don’t share your cynicism, though, about BLM. I think it’s had far more influence, already, than you give it credit for. And they’re growing (both the movement and its influence).

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Yep - thanks, couldn’t grab it.

Good to hear BLM is more effective than I know. Good to see this law prof take down the squeamy anonymous bunch.

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I’ve talked to him enough now that I can say he maintains a respectful distance while being fairly down to earth. That may be because he’s not trying to sleep with me, though.

I might be biased to see it as being more innocent than it is. I would like to eventually get a PhD (though I kind of break into a cold sweat when I think about how little I know, and how much there is to learn, and god oh god am I even capable?) and I feel like I wouldn’t want to use the honorific. My desire to relate with the people I currently attend classes with would not be a factor. I have trouble imagining sex with an eighteen or twenty year old as particularly desirable now at thirty while sharing the same student status. I just genuinely get uncomfortable when people are deferential to me by default. It’s difficult to describe why it would make me uncomfortable but it’s related to growing up in a relatively stratified society and having it give me the heebie-jeebies early on. But I can’t account for each heebie or jeebie on its own with any eloquence.

I thought that was Werner Von Braun?? I mean, I knew he was a Project Paperclip amalgam of some sort, but I could swear I read something that said he was mostly a shade of Von Braun.

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BTW: I used to share a lab with one of Von Braun’s grandkids, who was notorious for engaging in screaming abusive rants directed at female grad students.

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Academic or literal? Not that I’m sure it makes a difference either way.

Literal. He was a computer science guy who designed (bad) motion tracking software for us to use with our rats.

Flaming arsehole of a man. Took after his grandfather in that respect.

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It’s just a personal valuation on my part, so I don’t really expect society to go along with the idea. I’ve seen male computer science professors with their fancy doctorates subtly discourage women from succeeding in technology fields by, for example, almost always using anecdotes about “bad programmers” or “bad programming students” who are women. They also share links to Breitbart articles in campus-wide email threads to espouse their bigoted views.

Not at all. My statement was entirely true, though the voice in my head bit was a little inaccurate. It’s not that he says I’m awesome - he usually just says I must be right because if I were wrong, I’d realize it and have a different opinion. I realize he’s an idiot, but that doesn’t shut him up.

I will honestly admit that I was raised for the first 20 years of my life as a self-righteous religious conservative prick. Now I’m almost twice as old and just a recovering asshole who is still learning to see things from others’ perspectives and to not assume that my perspective is the best one just because it’s my perspective.

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Okay… you’re not even a phd candidate yet, and you already suffer from imposter syndrome! I think you fit into academia more than well enough…

And can I say, we made something productive out of this general back and forth! Yay (all of) us!

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I thought that was Werner Von Braun?? [/quote]
The accent and the former Nazi thing were based on von Braun, but von Neumann is the one who came up with the idea of Mutually Assured Destruction, which forms the basis of the movie. (In the later years of his life he was a government advisor, used a wheelchair like Strangelove, and advocated all kinds of wacky huge projects like intentionally melting the polar ice caps.) I think Sellers has sad he modeled his portrayal on WvB, who was better-known as a figure than JvN. The accent was probably based on a photographer named Weegee who was on the set for most of the filming and who had a distinctive German-American accent that people have said is exactly Strangelove’s accent.

In my time on my campus the most outspokenly conservative faculty member I can think of was in English. Of course, there are lots of people who style themselves as liberals but aren’t, for example administrators I’ve served with on budget committees who tried to find ways to get around the unions when hiring janitors so they could pay them less.

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Although I’m a lefty pacifist, I don’t actually disagree with von Neumann on this.

Yes, MAD is crazy. But it worked; we haven’t had a world war in seventy years. I don’t think that would be the case if it wasn’t for MAD.

Humanity has gotten too good at mechanised total war to be allowed to do it again. Even if you removed the nukes from the equation, a modern recap of WWII would wipe us all out; a handful of FAE bombs can annihilate a city just as well as a nuclear strike would.

The fact that the only apparent way of stopping us from doing that is a permanent Mexican standoff is dangerous and horrible, but so far it’s the only thing we’ve got that works.

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Read up on other nuclear policies like Pakistan’s and you realize that MAD makes weird sense.

It is basic game theory, which JvN pioneered, but we know that most game theory scenarios are based on certain hypotheticals that don’t always occur in practice. The movie is designed to illustrate one way it can go wrong. (Kubrick was an avid reader of Foreign Affairs and hung out with a couple of people from Rand, so was well-aware of the whole theoretical premise of the policy.) I don’t know how to respond to the rest of what you write, except to point out that it is a case of post hoc ergo propter hoc.

It’s certainly far from ideal, and it’s certainly dangerous enough that it’s probably going to blow up on us eventually if we don’t figure out a better solution. But I do believe (note: believe, not know) that we would’ve already wiped ourselves out if not for nuclear deterrence.

Wow, thank you, thoughtful selections, much appreciated.[quote=“anon61221983, post:114, topic:81178”]
construction of whiteness
[/quote]

This interests me. Painter does a very good survey of it, but her writing style is not my favorite.

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Why do you hate doctoral programs and the amount of work involved in them?

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My sarcasm detector is broken, so I apologize if you’re not being serious.

I don’t hate doctoral programs. I hate that society operates on false assumptions that people with doctorates are inherently hard-working, deserving of respect, or intelligent people. In the same respect, not every military veteran is a hero, not every police officer is honest, not every politician is corrupt, and not every conservative is a racist bigot.

Yes, there’s a lot of hard work involved in the doctorate programs I’ve heard of. I will likely never pursue one, so I can appreciate that others are willing to put more effort into such a pursuit than I am. Personally, I’d rather have 10 associate degrees in various areas of interest than one doctorate in one limited area. But in the end, academic achievement and “hark work” don’t inherently make you a respectable person. I’ve known too many terrible human beings with high level degrees or really strong work ethics to see a consistent connection between people I respect and people who have worked long and hard to achieve such a degree. The people who have such degrees that I have respect for were respectable people before they finished their doctorates.

A coworker/casual friend of mine is working on one now and he has my respect because he cares about his students and wants them to learn and succeed in their coursework. He doesn’t need a doctorate for that respect. He needs the doctorate to become an administrator and more power to him if he wants that headache and the paycheck it comes with.

If you managed to actually get a doctorate, you’re clearly hard working and are probably pretty intelligent. I say this as a doctoral dropout. I’m not sure why you’d disagree with this or need to denigrate the hard work of people who went through grad school simply because other people don’t get the recognition they deserve.

That’s a preference and immaterial to the issue at hand though.

No but they mean you are a hard worker and probably intelligent, which are two things that you are implying, if not outright saying, aren’t necessarily true.

I’m pretty sure quality of the person in matters of ethics or likability wasn’t under discussion and that doctorates don’t advertise themselves as bearing on that.

Who says he does? What I’m taking issue with is you saying, effectively, “Because people who don’t have doctorates don’t get respect sometimes when it is warranted, people with doctorates don’t deserve it either.”

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Just as a datapoint, how I got my doctorate:

Start with a B.Sci (in my case, with a double major in Psychology and the History and Philosophy of Science). First year Psych has about 1,000 students enrolled; by the time you get to third year, that’s down to about 300.

Of those, around 60 are invited to spend another year doing an Honours thesis, which consists entirely of original research. When students ask how much time they need to commit to this research, the standard answer is “all of it”. I lost around 1/3rd of my body weight during Honours, purely from stress.

Of those who complete Honours, about 20 get a first. Without a first, you have virtually no chance of being accepted into a PhD program.

The PhD program is not “education” in the way in which it’s usually conceived. You don’t go to any classes, you don’t read any textbooks, you don’t sit any exams. You just work in the lab, sixty to a hundred hours per week, for about five years. At one stage I spent six months working midday to midnight, seven days per week, without a day off.

In my field, Professors spend all their time attending conferences, giving lectures, schmoozing politicians and writing grant applications. Almost all of the hands-on science is done by grad students and postdocs.

By the end of my doctorate, I’d published about half a dozen research papers, written a bunch of magazine articles, given a score of TV and radio interviews and answered countless emails from random members of the public asking about my research.

All of that was done with no income apart from a couple of scholarships and a bit of casual teaching pay. Money is tight, social life is nonexistent, mental and physical health is sacrificial.

Here’s the thesis, if anyone is curious: http://www.academia.edu/4685805/Mephedrone_in_the_Rat_Mechanisms_of_Action_and_Adverse_Consequences

(squick warning: gruesome image on page 1-8)

The table of contents is seven pages long. There’s a table of contents for the table of contents. :slight_smile:

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This is why I stayed in Humanities and left after my Masters!

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