So, if thought experiments were sodas, this one is a flat Dr Pepper?
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This seems very, um, Reaganistic. Like, if it weren’t for the freedom-haters standing in your way, simply desiring covid test kits would cause them to flow like tap water,* because the default state of the universe is to grant the every wish of real American patriots, and it is thwarted only by the idea of relying on others.
* tap water being a good example of something that flows freely thanks to the daily effort and competence of thousands of other people
The truth is, no matter how many guns and cans of soup you hoard, if you want a covid test, you’re going to need the help of someone with expertise and resources you don’t have. The fact that you pay for it doesn’t mean you achieved it on your own by the act of waving krugerrands at someone. If you were “allowed” to buy a covid test from wherever you wanted, that would only grant you the freedom to get worthless test results. Which you have anyway.
Regulation can go wrong (which is why good citizens pay attention to the details of governance, not the slogans) but that’s moot here, because the only argument put is that regulation is wrong in principle. And it doesn’t hold up on its own terms, because if you wanted to corruptly profit from covid testing, this is where you’d be selling as many overpriced tests as possible.
Individual freedom’s great, but not every problem can be blamed on a lack of it. If you want to know how decent, conscientious folk have managed to spend the last 40 years passionately voting for evil – this is precisely how.
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THIS. Came here to say the same. This framing of FDA regulation as some sort of supply-limiting cabal trying to control costs is so egregiously bad that it undermines peoples’ faith in government institutions. Dreadful.
Medicine is dangerous and hard to understand if it is really working. That’s why this “expensive” process exists and why we shouldn’t fuck with it.
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I was originally going to suggest that if we can sell pregnancy tests cheap and over the counter, we could sell virus tests the same way, but then I realized that the body chemistry indicators for pregnancy don’t change year to year.
Realistically, there is no private or public system on earth that could go from
- Hey, there’s this new virus we just heard of today
to
- Here are 330 million (or even say 50 million) test kits ready to ship
quickly enough to make a significant dent in the spread of the virus.
If the country where the virus originated doesn’t cover it up or lie about it, that buys some time. Maybe enough, maybe not.
sorry no; even flat Dr Pepper is drinkable. Good? not so much, but not false and at risk of killing others who bought said flat soda.
The FDA does a fine job at conducting careful, methodical fact finding in those many cases where careful, methodical fact finding is called for.
But when faced with a nationwide health emergency requiring an emergency response, they at first did their best to mimic the official AC repairmen from Brazil. Have you got a 27B stroke 6?
Think I’m exaggerating? Here’s a link to the FDA requirements for face masks.
https://www.fda.gov/regulatory-information/search-fda-guidance-documents/surgical-masks-premarket-notification-510k-submissions
Want to know why we now have so much pharma regulation? Google “thalidomide.”
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I do think you’re being hyperbolic, so pray tell, enlighten us as to what specific parts of the mask regulations you have an issue with.
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Not testing the virus, but you might want to Google lateral flow test in relation to Covid-19.
This is going to happen. Trouble is that the stuff on the market already has not been thoroughly tested by the respective reference labs, so we don’t know about the quality of the results. Which, as I remind everyone who is excited that such devices already exist, is absolutely fucking crucial. If we don’t know about specificity and accuracy of the tests, including margins of error, they will do more harm than good.
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There are a lot of economists trying to use this argument, that if only COVID solutions were left to the free market, somehow or another it would be solved overnight. The problem, somehow or another, isn’t a new biological threat but any attempt at regulation, research or the acquisition of knowledge. Go find Tyler Cowen’s piece on epidemiologists being incompetents and possibly uneducated. I’ve noticed several others.
I think it’s called projection. Mainstream economists have been totally off course for decades, so they’re eager to trash those trying to deal with the current crisis.
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Nobody here is arguing the FDA is perfect. We are saying that Frauenfelder’s take on the situation was incorrect to the point of being irresponsible. You seem to be attempting a derail over to “regulations are bad because look at these crazy examples” and I’m personally not interested in having that version of a conversation in this thread.
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If a mask which does not meet those specs is unsafe/ineffective, then the 50+ people I have seen today wearing homemade masks may as well toss them in the trash.
Homemade masks are like the black market repairman in Brazil who fixes things without the proper forms being filled out. They get the job done.
I think it’s completely appropriate to have one standard of mask for doctors and nurses to use in the operating room and with immune-compromised patients, and a simpler, easier to meet standard for general community use.
I’ll plead guilty to saying “some regulations get in the way of dealing with emergency situations”. Because they do.
FDA has developed this guidance document to assist industry in preparing premarket notification submissions for surgical masks and other masks including isolation masks, procedure masks, and *dental masks. These devices may be used by healthcare personnel during procedures to protect both the patient and the healthcare personnel from the transfer of microorganisms, body fluids, and particulate material.
Emphasis mine.
True.
So we’re on the same page, right? You, @xhonk, the FDA, and me.
Uhh, what point are you trying to make?
Homemade masks aren’t FDA regulated. Studies have shown that they can help reduce particle transmission.
Surgical masks are a different beast.
So forgive me if I’m left confused how the FDA has squashed the ability of people to make or use homemade masks. Are you arguing that the FDA should allow homemade N95 or surgical masks to bypass their standards on filtration, flammability, and solvent wetting?
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Big pharma is still pushing it, too
ETA:
https://www.webmd.com/drugs/2/drug-16389/thalidomide-oral/details
The solution to burdensome regulation is not no regulation, it is better regulation. The ‘free market’ is a haven for thugs who would see you horsemeat as sirloin if they could; the public sector receives my taxes in part to make sure that doesn’t happen. If you’re complaining that the definition of ‘horsemeat’ is too narrow – or that not serving horse takes up a lot of your time – then you can fuck straight off.
The free market only allows for correction after the fact:
– Restaurant serves horse as Steak
– Customer somehow finds out(?)
– Customer speaks to other customers, restaurant does PR & Damage control.
– Horsestaurant loses business
– Horsestaraunt closes thanks to the invisible hand.
Regulation:
– Restaurant would like to save money on beef by serving horse
– Current regulations state that is illegal
– Does it anyway
– Health inspectors and Animal control shut them down at first complaint
– Restaurant closes or makes changes.
Again, do I like Gov’t Regulation? No. But unlike Libertarians, when I see EVERY OTHER POSSIBLE OPTION, I like it a fuck of a lot more.
This “If Virus Tests were Sodas” jerk a) can fuck off and b) Probably makes more money than anyone on this board, because being a Conservative hack is so, so remunerative
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