ACA isn't enough: single-payer is a feminist issue

A sure sign that someone is drinking the right-wing Kool-Aid is when they say “look it up” instead of citing reliable sources (see also “educate yourself”). As if “I’m a man therefore I’m not a feminist” isn’t a dead giveaway.


See this /\ Mr. @Thomas_Wymer

I’ve seen this many times before. You look it up, post contrary sources, and are met with, “Keep looking, you’re an idiot, you didn’t find it!”. Sometimes you can goad them into posting their sources, sometimes they reply with, “Nuh-uh, you can’t make me!” like some 5th grader. But when they do, those sources are usually…completely biased garbage full of half truths if you’re lucky.


I was thinking a bit more on the way over to work, and some specialties are certainly impacted – my father in law has Alzheimer’s and, for reasons not relevant here, my mother in law decided she couldn’t deal with the anxiety of an appointment with a specialist and so cancelled it a few days before – and then was shocked and horrified that the next appointment was 4.5 months out.

I’d really be interested in data that took waiting times from the front end to access to specialists across systems and across specialties. I can go straight to a specialist here in the US (assuming I get the appointment – YMMV) and, as I understand it, I have to filter through GPs in a lot of single-payer systems to get to the specialist.

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Everybody calm down, guys. It was a hit and run job. He’s gone now.


You’re the only one who really knows, so we must take your word for that. So that gives you a score of

Accurate statements: 1

Copy-and-paste distortions and outright lies: Too many to count. Let’s just say “all the rest”.

Not a promising beginning for your first BB post, but study hard and I’m sure you can improve. Welcome to BoingBoing.


It’s always the same old BS from the “free” market crowd. Another favourite is the old Libertarian trick of pointing to government programmes that have been deliberately underfunded for years by the small-government legislators they support and then saying “see, they don’t work! The private sector and the market are the only alternative.”

One thing I wouldn’t ascribe to bad faith on the part of Libertarians is their avoidance of discussing the benefits of economies of scale, standards-based efficiencies, preventative measures, and other basic business concepts. I’ve encountered enough of these Galtian tycoons on-line and in meatspace to know that this comes from a level of ignorance that would make me hesitate to entrust them with the operation of a child’s lemonade stand.

Thanks. As a matter of principle I like to keep my Mute list short.


I’m sorry about your father-in-law.

I would like to see this data as well. If I find some, I will share.

Like I said, I expect wait times. But wait times may not all be equal. I live in a major city with a well regarded medical school and lot of hospitals. I also shop for care providers by recommendations from others and I always look up credentials. I am fortunate in the health plan that is available to me. My wait time may be higher than someone less choosy. My wait time may be higher or lower than someone who has a more restrictive plan. I don’t know. But I would like to see the hard data as well.


Well, that is a pretty fair sample size that examines a broad spectrum of demographic experiences and jurisdictional variances. Interestingly, I’ve conducted my own, similarly structured survey! I’ve been going to the same doctor for over 13 years now. When my children were born 11 years ago he became our entire family’s PCP. Since then he has moved his offices fromour very small rural NY town to a nearby rural town with a significantly higher population. Whenever a friend asks me who I recommend I cheerfully offer my highest recommendation (I’d say this is at least 5 families and/or individuals). However, not a one of them has been able to secure an appointment or even get on a waiting list. There are very few other true family practices in this area (impersonal walk-in clinics abound!) and none are as well regarded as mine. Fortunately, plain dumb luck is a major feature of the US healthcare system, so I’m all set!


Or the always-popular “legwork” admonition which, in addition to positioning themselves as unimpeachable authorities who have no need to cite credible proof and statistics, carries the added bonus of implying that you are a feckless layabout too distracted by checking for the latest government handout to arrive in the (taxpayer funded!) mail instead of doing your basic due diligence. You should be ashamed.


Yep, of the course the US has no wait times at all.


Yeah, ALZ sucks. And thanks. In his case we knew it was coming – his father got it at about 60, he’s 78 and diagnosed for a year (probably had it for 2) – but I think the weird part is that in his case it just seems this staircase going down – it’s not gradual. He’s about the same for weeks, then, thump, down a notch. That notch doesn’t come back, so each drop raises a kind of new level of grief about it. He can engage in conversation, but if he tries to ask a question, he can’t formulate it properly. That particular subroutine – I WANT TO KNOW MORE! – just disappeared.


It’s much worse for Medicaid recipients (Obama era report):

@Thomas_Wymer was right. Government health care sucks.


Might argue that plain dumb luck is critical to success in just about any facet of USian life. Try being born rich on for size! It worked for Turnip, it can work for you!


Canadian here. Not really. I can call my doctor’s office in the morning and have an appointment with my doctor on the same day unless he’s on vacation. I can’t do that with my frickin’ hairdresser. I am seeing specialists for an issue, and despite it not being a lifethreatening crisis, appointments have been in a matter of weeks with zero out of pocket. If it was more urgent a problem, it would be quicker, because service decisions are done based on medical priority, not ability to pay.

Try selling these myths on a forum where people don’t have personal experience with the systems you cite, you might have better success.


Thanks, Obama.


Oh for gods’ sakes. There’s so much BS shilling in your post I don’t even know how to start parsing it. Healthcare in Canada is NOT ‘imploding’. Non-critical waits do happen. But, like most Canadians, I’m pretty happy to wait a bit longer if I’m being bumped so that someone else with a critical need can not die.

And as the recipient of some very specialized care requiring a neurologist and an optho-neurologist, along with several MRIs, and who lives in a remote, rural community, I can tell you that the critical need in my case resulted in waiting TWO WHOLE days (one day of which was to account for ferry times). And my $1800/month daily prescription, taken daily in a subcut shot, is completely covered. And included a nurse travelling to my home from a city two hours away to spend a couple of hours with me teaching me to do the injections properly.

As a single mum, any care my child needed was instantly accessible and cost free up front, when and where and from whom we needed it, regardless (obvs) of my financial staus. Do I pay through my taxes? Damn straight I do, and happy to do so, particularly as I’m in vastly better financial condition than I was through a lot of my kiddo’s childhood. I kinda like knowing that myself and my neighbours and/or their kids have the right to the care they need, whether preventative or mitigating.

So take your fucked-up ‘healthcare’ system, and whatever pharmaceutical company you’re shilling for, and shove it.


Here in the socialist hellscape of Oz, the “waiting time” to see my neurologist was a week. I’m currently waiting on an MRI, which is harder than usual because it’s the holiday season and I need one with an attached anaestheologist. So that might involve a delay of as long as a month.

If not for the anaesthesia requirement, I’d probably have got it done within a week or two.


Yup, young doctors, whilst most definitely involved in an absolute shitshow regarding pay & hours, are still pretty well-remunerated (source: I administer their pensions).


Re ‘wait times in canada’

Canada had a problem with wait times in some provinces in the 90’s. Then people became unhappy. Then they fixed it and wait times are ordinary. There is a website where you can look up wait times for all physicians in BC.

The study on which this ‘wait times are terrible elsewhere’ claim is based explicitly called out the US number as being included because it is interesting, but warning that it is probably not comparable to the other countries. Essentially the common measure of ‘wait time’ is a statistic of convenience meaning that the thing that is actually measured is an easy-to-collect proxy. It is the time from when healthcare is scheduled to when it is delivered. For the rest of the wealthy world this is expected to capture almost all wait time, and to be similar across nations. As everyone is insured with low out of pocket costs when they have a health issue they go to a doctor and are diagnosed and then schedule treatment. In the US, however, is different. With many uninsured and vastly higher out of pocket costs it is much more common to delay diagnosis and then to delay or simply never get treatment. Thus this statistic is expected to function much more poorly for the US than other wealthy nations. It counts the ‘wait time’ of someone who spends 6 months saving or figuring out how to get better insurance for a non-emergency operation as 0 wait time. The three days someone waits before going to the doctor because it will cost them $100, not wait time. The weeks going back and forth with an insurance company before they agree they will cover something, not wait time unless the procedure was scheduled.