Thanks for that - I didn’t even know there was a video that anyone thought showed him beating up an old man, much less that it had been debunked. But I think your hyperlink is too subtle - when combating untruths, it’s better to be really direct.
Jesus Christ. Could these people demonstrate any less understanding of what people are upset about here??
Actually NO, I am not merely saying that Mike Brown was “no angel”. I am saying he was a belligerent, aggressive fool who happened to get murdered unjustly by cop.
I have seen a couple of assaults like that and I have called 911 as a result. Good people DON’T assault store clerks and steal stuff right in front of them.
The only reason that video was quickly scuttled as “not proving anything” was that the store owner did not press charges-- probably out of fear of his life and livelihood.
That is a good point Supaiku.
So, for the cheap seats and potential trolls: No, Mike Brown did not beat up an old dude over a stolen backpack. Here’s the link.
Got it? Good.
“On leave” is not “let go.” You should really fix that headline.
Sure, but he apparently DID rough up a store clerk and steal some cigars. Yeah, I know, too much to expect a “martyr” to be a NOT a criminal.
Aw, look at you. Being all like a
in the comments.
Good thing there ain’t a cop around amirite!?
There’s doubt as to whether Brown actually did steal some cigars. But don’t let that stop you from trashing him - I mean, he was probably mean to someone at some point in his life prior. Maybe he was even uppity?
So let’s “stipulate” a few things:
Note: IANAL but I’ve watched my share of formulaic Law & Order derivatives.
There’s very good evidence that Mike Brown committed strong arm robbery at the convenience store. No DA would need to do more than show a grand jury that video to get an indictment.
It’s possible he committed assault on a police officer and highly probable that he
fled from resisted arrest. Any DA could get an indictment for that by simply reading Darren Wilson’s written report of the incident to a grand jury.
Indictments lead to trials (or more usually, plea bargains)
But Mike Brown will never go to trial, because he is DEAD.
Jurisprudence in this country is nominally “innocent until proven guilty” so Mike Brown is not guilty of any crime. He never got a chance to go to trial or plead out, because he is DEAD.
So what about that unjustly murdered by a cop thing?. Is an unjust murder of a “belligerent aggressive fool” not worthy of protest? Is that person’s death not worthy of mourning?
So he’s not the ideal candidate for a cause célèbre
I asked you earlier to name a better candidate from among the hundred or so (statistically expected) black men who have been killed by cops since Mike Brown died. You haven’t responded to that, rather you came back with this gem which reveals much of your underlying assumptions about the community
Would you care to respond to that question or will you choose to deflect again?
Edit to add: I see the don’t-push-your-luck-dragon has fed well since the last time I looked at this thread and the post in which I asked you to nominate a better candidate is no more.
I’m sorry did you know him? Is your assessment from anything other than that grainy video? He was still shot and killed in the street. Mike Brown is not on trial here… and sadly, no one is.
What about… “Soylent green - because you are what you eat!”?
That’s right, he is not a martyr, not a cause-célèbre. Perhaps the reaction to his death should be more constructive than riots, looting, and burning stuff down? Perhaps strewing the street with the stuffed animal garbage memorial doesn’t solve a damn thing.
As for your hypothetical question…
I am going to just say that in the majority police killings I’ve paid attention to in the past, the police were justified. There are, of course, exceptions and this is one of them. I do see Mike Brown’s death as an injustice even though I believe that Brown himself was a NOT a good person. And yes, I am basing that on the grainy footage from the store. I can see why people are outraged, but I just don’t understand the memorializing of Brown.
In 1995, in Pittsburgh, there was the Johnny Gammage incident. I remember outrage and protest for a long time for that, although no one rioted. Gammage was the most high-profile “driving-while-black” victim. I am sure there are a handful of other cases of police doing wrong, profiling, and making assumptions that led to the death of suspects. I am not saying there isn’t a problem.
As for evidence, trials, and “innocent until proven guilty”-- you have more faith in the judicial system than I. The verdict in a trial, IMHO, means little more than who has the right lawyer and jury.
It’s not who he was what caused the protests. It was only the last drop. Who he was was incidental only and bears little importance. He was the billionth one who got a death sentence for a petty crime (or even for no crime at all), while the one who denied him the due process was let scot free - that is the important part here.
For low enough value of “justified”, perhaps.
Sometimes police shooting is the right response. Usually it is not. Most of the cases are the “exceptions”, there are no procedural changes nor personal prosecutions to speak about in reaction to the “exceptions”, and the people naturally feel that it can happen to them too. And they are pissed.
Because he was the n-th, the critical last drop that happened when the people’s frustration went over the threshold. By the virtue of the blind Lady Fortune he became the symbol of a pervasive problem.
People in that area weren’t frustrated enough to go over the riot threshold.
When you don’t listen to people, they will have to become loud enough to be heard. Rioting is one of such methods, and usually happens when highly frustrated people find that peaceful protests get ignored. When your people riot, you are doing the governing thing wrong.
From what I saw, I’d guess that most such cases are based on profiling and assumptions going wrong, which are the result of bad training, which is due to a generally inappropriate mindset, which is linked to the “tough on crime” attitudes.
That is sadly true. However, you still usually end up alive, whatever the verdict is.
But you are right here, this is another barrel of worms. The prosecutors, the cheap and overloaded public defenders, the excessive “tough on crime” sentences and the mechanism of plea bargains are a fairly toxic mix. Less-lethal than judge-jury-executioner combo known as a cop, but still working as a lives-destroying assembly line of the prison-industrial complex.
I challenge you to take 5 minutes and listen to the video linked below. Listen with an open mind and an open heart. For five minutes, take down your defenses and just listen to one human being talk without prejudging him or his words.
Xeni, I respect you and appreciate you sharing this story.
I do want to point out that using the word “kid” when describing Michael Brown is condescending. 18 years old is voting age in this country and is pretty much the legal definition of an adult. 18 year olds go to fight and die for this country, holds jobs and even run businesses. Mike Brown made some very adult decisions on his last day. You can argue that he was immature, perhaps fatally, but dismissing or trying to soften them as the action of a “kid” is not accurate.
As a culture, we draw a line at age 18. It is the legal definition of adulthood. However…
While 18 year olds are able to go fight and die for their country, they’re still 3 years from being able to walk into a bar and buy a drink.
While 18 year olds can run a business, they will have a really tough time entering a casino
While 18 year olds can hold jobs, they pretty nearly can’t rent a car…
So that bright line between childhood and adulthood is actually kind of blurry.
Actually, he made some decisions pretty typical of a late adolescent.
Significant brain changes after age 18 per Dartmouth
The fact he was a large, black male amplified the consequences of the decisions the kid made.
You’re rather black and white on that issue, eh?
Well, I’m heading out to go cull some ‘‘bad’’ people, or at least elevate myself onto a platform of my own imagining, above ‘‘them’’, using the power of my own judgement. As well as several convenient blind spots.
Empathy is for suckers, not for folks like you and me, eh @Angdis
Well, yeah, good people simply don’t act that way under any circumstances. On which planet is it acceptable behavior to shove people like that?
While I do also feel the cop is culpable for abuse of deadly force in this case, it seems to me that Mike Brown could have saved his own dumb self by avoiding unnecessary confrontation with the cop by complying and making a beeline for the sidewalk when asked.
But no, he didn’t do that, instead he got belligerent (which some like to INCORRECTLY and disingenuously call “uppitty”). Could it have been that MB had mistakenly suspected the cop was going after him for the assault and thus got aggressive in a stupid attempt to brush-off the cop? …likely, given what is known of MB’s very short, recent history.
You know this is good don’t you?
It reflects well on you that you don’t understand other people’s motives and that you say so is fine and good.
Now, condemning other people’s reasons, which you don’t understand, is asinine.
IT would not be so to say that he doesn’t deserve it and to say why, and make a good case for it.
But to just say, “I don’t know why you mourn this dead man” so don’t put up a memorial for him betrays your lack of understanding as a lack of empathy.
Again, not a bad thing in and of itself, until you actually defend it as objective truth and not merely your own opinion.
I’d argue that calling someone a kid is relative.
I’m 38, when one of my uncle’s calls me a kid. I understand what he’s trying to say.
Looking back at 38, an 18 year old really does seem like a kid to me, legal voting status notwithstanding.
I am not attempting to posit “objective truth” here, people are going to memorialize whoever they want.
I merely criticized it, explained why, and stated that I don’t think Mike Brown deserves the adoration he is getting.