Rules allow for NRPS (Non-Revenue Positive Space) - eg: deadheading crew, to take priority over revenue passengers - even if this creates an oversold situation. NRPS are deemed to be “must ride” passengers and have priority over everyone else.
Now if this was a case of NRSA (Non-Revenue Space Available) - eg: non-working or standby employees, then it would be an entirely different story.
[quote=“jimp, post:39, topic:98660”]
With respect to you, maybe it’s better if airlines get their act together and work out schedules like this in advance so they know how many seats they need for crew etc and keep a couple in reserve for last minute whatevers.[/quote]
My understanding of the facts was the deadheading crew was a last minute situation and wasn’t anticipated.
[quote=“jimp, post:39, topic:98660”]
The staff there was bone stupid. They, as others have said, could have upped the ante…most of the time they give out vouchers that cost them effectively zero and just offering more of that, sooner or later someone would volunteer. Hell offer a couple of free upgrades to first or something on a long haul and there’d probably be a stampede of volunteers.[/quote]
Reports say that offers up to $800 were made for volunteers and up to 3 other people accepted. The max limit for involuntary is $1300 so there’s not much reason to offer more than that. This guy (as well as others on the flight) could have accepted the offer at any time but when it came time to start bumping people he was unfortunately at the top of the list.
“I assure you, Mrs. Buttle, the Ministry is very scrupulous about following up and eradicating any error. If you have any complaints which you’d like to make, I’d be more than happy to send you the appropriate forms.”
The other aspect is the guy was wounded, potentially seriously. I’d have been on the phone with 911 to get an ambulance there ASAP. I would not want to block the guy from getting help. I may follow after them to try and help the man’s injuries, but blocking an injured man in an aluminum tube where you yourself may also get the same treatment is not the way to go.
Edit: added quote since the post had more comments added.
Also: Rule 5 Cancellation of Reservation doesn’t have anything about transferring UA employees either.
You know how those crybaby doctors are, always spouting nonsense like “I choose not to give up the ticket I purchased” and “but I have patients waiting for me.”
Actually it’s extremely relevant as this was the root reason for why the passenger was bumped. This happens every single day and usually without incident. Every airline has this policy - without exception.
What happened after is where the problems started.
Not victim blaming. Simply calling out that this passenger bears some degree of responsibility for not leaving peacefully when he was first instructed to.
Let me be clear: It does not excuse violence. Ever.
CoC doesn’t list every condition that might lead to an oversold situation. It simply defines the procedures and what the passenger is entitled to regarding compensation.
Rule 25:
The request for volunteers and the selection of such person to be denied space will be in a manner determined solely by UA.
Yet someone was beaten into submission in order to provide United a solution to its self-created problem. A bit of thinking on someone’s part could have found a creative solution but most of them would cost the airline money which is why no one bothered.
" The max limit for involuntary is $1300 so there’s not much reason to offer more than that"
Seems a bit nonsensical. Why is there a maximum someone can be offered to give up what they paid to get? The airline could have offered upgrades as well. Unusual situations call for innovative thinking which was not shown here at any time. The airline staff had no real interest in solving this in the passengers’ (all of them) favor but resorted to violence when people did not obey their command “You there, I say, you, off this plane so another may have your seat!. People with clubs are coming to make sure you do as you are told.”.
Heck, let’s make it fully real and very simple next time: 'We need four people to give up their seats or we will point at various people and they will get off the plane or be beaten and dragged off." That should get volunteers pretty damn quick and be 100% honest and accurate.
Remind people they fly only at the whim of the airline and had better snap to and damn well smile while obeying it.
I’m with @TooGoodToCheck_ on this one. A video is evidence, a video is press. Do you think we’d be talking about this today if there was nothing to gawk at? Just a customer claiming he was mistreated - they’re a dime a dozen, if the airline doesn’t get you, the dept of fatherland security will.
Of course, you can join in, and get bloodied too. You’ll be three more words on the story we all ignored.
This is corporate america we’re talking about. Hit them in the wallet, or walk away. They’re the only winning moves.
Rule 21: Section H
Safety – Whenever refusal or removal of a Passenger may be necessary for the safety of such Passenger or other Passengers or members of the crew including, but not limited to:
Passengers whose conduct is disorderly, offensive, abusive, or violent;
Passengers who fail to comply with or interfere with the duties of the members of the flight crew, federal regulations, or security directives;
Passengers who assault any employee of UA, including the gate agents and flight crew, or any UA Passenger;
Passengers who, through and as a result of their conduct, cause a disturbance such that the captain or member of the cockpit crew must leave the cockpit in order to attend to the disturbance;
So apparently they first offered $400, then $800, then physical force. If the maximum is $1300, I’m curious who decided it wasn’t worth dangling another $500 to see who’d bite, and just cut straight to the violence.
I can’t internally justify that “it’s okay, we can just beat you instead, it’s right here in the fineprint” makes any of this morally acceptable.
