An interview with Jordan Peterson, who believes in witches and dragons

boing
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Wow, that could not be more true about JP. Where on Earth did you get the last one from? Perhaps you missed the earlier discussion on the enforced monogamy NYT hit piece. Here’s Jordan taking apart the hit piece.

Long story short: ‘enforced monogamy’ is a term that’s been in the scholarly anthropological literature for decades and simply means a societal pressure for keeping people from having more than one partner. That is literally all it is. Several media outlets have refuted the hit piece, including The Western Journal, The Federalist, and The Daily Wire, besides JP himself. JP is not a transphobe, as he’s explained over and over and over and over and over and … I’ll just post a video where JP explains that he has used transgender pronouns, and that literally all he is saying (which the left refuses to accept) is that he simply is against governmental speech dictates.

I’m sorry, but you’ve got to be more charitable than that.

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another thing re: mythology- searching for “truth” in “fundamental myths” (I feel like this is one of those terms that can only mean what Peterson says it means) seems so fucking quaint.

Ughhh … what? Google ‘Jungian archetypes’. Archetypes are recurring themes throughout these fundamental mythologies which say something true about mankind, or represent something true about mankind. Consider the archetype of the tyrannical king in the tower, or the boy who doesn’t want to grow up (Peter Pan). JP doesn’t say these myths say anything scientifically true about the world. He explains in his book that before the development of the scientific method, people didn’t think in terms of things. They thought in terms of narrative. That’s how they reflected themselves, their beliefs and conscience. I’m pretty sure if you learn about Jungian archetypes, you’ll be the first to agree with JP about what he says. Virtually everyone that’s given JP a fair hearing has agreed with the psychological profoundness that these mythologies have. By giving up the heritage of humanity, you give something up about humanity as well. JP is doing the opposite. That’s why his book is an international bestseller and is still on the top of the Amazon charts and has sold over a million copies now in half a year. There’s something about these mythologies that is more true than reality itself.

Also, @Melz2 ;

I think in Chinese philosophy, the “female” half of the yin yang (Yin) is associated with chaos and some other negative traits… but even if an ideology was loosely based upon that premise, it’s still cherry picking, because the very concept of yin and yang is duality and balance - one side cannot not ‘overpower’ the other, and neither can exist without the other one.

Actually, that’s not cherry picking at all. Not only has JP not said that we should not exist with chaos and only order, he’s said exactly what you’re saying right now. He explains that we need to live on the line separating and juxtaposing order and chaos, and that to live your life in this way is to take up the heroic path of mythology. JP knows that this is a duality. He’s written a book on this stuff (Maps of Meaning) that’s highly respected in the academic community. Perhaps you need to read his work and listen to his lectures rather than read what leftists are saying about his work on Vox. It’s like day and night.

And finally @anon75430791;

So it’s not in every mythology, but recurs in a few. And these few prove his point! But it’s not cherry picking.

*FWIW, chaos gods in human mythos are evenly male and female across many cultures.

As Melz pointed out above, and as I’ve pointed out, the feminine/chaos to masculine/order duality is specifically the yin and yang that JP is talking about. JP uses the yin and yang in specific, since it provides the duality of order and chaos, and the human duality of masculine and feminine. Not only that, but there is a hint of the opposite serpent in each half, but that’s another story. JP never said that it occurs in every mythology. He just said it’s an archetype. And it is. That is literally an archetype right there provided by the yin and yang. Can you please quote JP saying something about this, word for word, which you think is wrong? Or must I show you he’s written an entire book about this stuff in 1999 that was published by one of the most reputable academic presses, Routledge?

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You’re not even wrong. I’m not sure which universe your Jordan B Peterson is from, but this reality’s much different than his.

It’s not an anthropological term; it’s his dogwhistling for “let’s make Honour Killings and acid attacks acceptable”. Under no civil society is enforced not tyranny at state or social level. Indeed, the state laws merely reflect the wishes of the populace at large. Society already rewards marriages with special tax breaks and perks.

He’s a demonstrably misogynistic, transphobic shitlord.

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No, we really don’t “have to” do anything.

Dude, if you fanboy any harder, I swear you’re gonna bust something vital…

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You read RationalWiki?

It’s not an anthropological term; it’s his dogwhistling for “let’s make Honour Killings and acid attacks acceptable”. Under no civil society is enforced not tyranny at state or social level. Indeed, the state laws merely reflect the wishes of the populace at large. Society already rewards marriages with special tax breaks and perks.

Actually, it is an anthropological term. Enforced monogamy, or the idea of imposing monongamy, is in the anthropological literature. I don’t know where you got the idea that saying it wasn’t an anthropological term makes it not an anthropological term.

I can give you an example very quickly. Voila, it took me one minute to find a reference in a scholarly book to the idea of imposing monogamy.

We already have a situation in our own cultural where monogamy is imposed because it is held to be more natural to the “Western and Northern races.”
Fox, Robin. Reproduction and Succession: Studies in Anthropology, Law, and Society Pg. 47

Want another example? Perhaps … do you want me to refer you to the very book JP posted on this topic on his Twitter in response to the NYT hit piece? By the way, your claim that JP wants acid attacks to become acceptable?

@Melizmatic
Try me. Correcting myths about people I respect is something I enjoy doing. And yes, you’ve really got to be more charitable if I’m going to make the decision to invest time actually responding to your claims.

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When somebody lends support to Nazis and transphobes, they cease to be a human worth defending. Whether under the guise of “Just asking questions” or “just joking” or even played straight - a dickhead is a dickhead.

Jordan “Always be precise with your speech” Peterson knows exactly the implications of what he calls for and retweets. He does not need a veil of respectability; he is outright supporting misogyny and supporting the alt-reich. You don’t have to look far to see examples. In fact, they were posted upthread!

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Aren’t you just precious?

I am not your huckleberry, sea lion. If I choose not to waste my time on your idol, then I’m certainly not going to waste any engaging a ‘devout disciple’ either.

140208-someone-is-wrong-on-the-internet.gif800×600 32.4 KB

But I will grab some popcorn and enjoy the show.

Thanks for all the free entertainment.

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I was referring to your words. Do you not see the contradiction therein? If it’s not cherry picking, then why are only some small subset of examples deemed to be meaningful?

Perhaps there’s a misunderstanding in terminology? How is the word “fundamental” meant in JP’s context?

image

A layman would look at the phrase, “Fundamental Mythology” and presume that the examples given demonstrate principles that are central to human mythos. Or humanity. Or something. If that’s not the case, then how are these ideas in any way “fundamental”?

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beware of sealions?

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When somebody lends support to Nazis and transphobes, they cease to be a human worth defending.

LOL. JP supports Nazis? I would have taken the time to show how everything you said about JP is obviously wrong if you spent two minutes watching his lectures, but you’re way too stooped into your presuppositions. Here’s a video by JP literally titled ‘How Hitler Was Even More Evil Than You Think’ – notice how actual nazis disparage JP in the comments section.

Here’s what Jordan Peterson wrote back in 1999 in his book Maps of Meaning, pg. 273;

the planned humiliation and rape of thousands of Muslim women in Yugoslavia, the holocaust of the Nazis, the carnage perpetrated by the Japanese in mainland China – such events are not attributable to human kinship with the animal, the innocent animal, or even by the desire to protect territory, interpersonal and intrapsychic, but by a deep-rooted spiritual sickness, endemic to mankind – the consequence of unbearable self-consciousness, apprehension of destiny in suffering and limitation, and pathological refusal to face the consequences thereof.

Further on in the book, JP calls Hitler’s men “barbarians”. But you don’t care about all that, do you? All you really want is to serve your prejudices against JP.

@anon75430791

The reason why it’s not cherry picking is because no one, me or JP, claimed that it’s present everything in mythological literature. It just has to be present enough to be an archetype. There’s only one Peter Pan, but Peter Pan is an archetypal story because of what it represents. Again, this is literally the basics in Jungian psychology. I do not know why I need to convince you of something that should be an axiom in a debate like this.

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But Vivian James is a symbol of GamerGate/AltRight/Petersonian misogyny wholesome values and a defender of being an asshole to women western values!

/snrk

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https://twitter.com/m_tol/status/929174851746533376?lang=en

He’s a fucking Alt-Reich supporter.

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One of my favorite things to do is to take the favored tools of haters and use them against them.

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Leftist on JP:

He’s a fucking Alt-Reich supporter.

Actual alt-righter on JP:

So we can conclude a few things: that a Jewish television producer put Peterson on the map, that Jewish-dominated mainstream media outlets give him incredible coverage and access, and that his fierce pro-Jewish stance indicates a loyalty to the Jews supporting and promoting him. This makes Peterson essentially a tool of the powerful Jews backing his weak, inconsequential pushback against radical leftism.

I recommend everyone who genuinely thinks JP is an alt-righter because he stood beside a frog in a picture to read the full alt-right article breaking down who JP is from alt-right.com itself.
Martinez Perspective

As JP so eloquently put it:

But of course, I literally showed you JP calling Hitler’s men “barbarians” and referring to the Nazi acts as the product of endemic spiritual corruption. Now if that doesn’t convince someone to rethink what they’ve been told about someone who has been talking against Nazi’s for literally 3 decades like JP, then what will?

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Obligs:

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To quote my favorite semi-recurring Portland Mercury columnist Francine Colman-Gutierrez, “You’re wrong about that.”

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Want to expand a bit more?

Carl Jung understood archetypes as universal, archaic patterns and images that derive from the collective unconscious and are the psychic counterpart of instinct. They are inherited potentials which are actualized when they enter consciousness as images or manifest in behavior on interaction with the outside world.
Jungian archetypes - Wikipedia

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Yeah see the thing is that Jung was wrong about that.

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Want to expand a bit more on that, yet again?

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Erm, not really, no.

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