I’m not arguing at all. I was merely bringing something I read to the attention of this forum. Why are you so angry? Why are so many people angry? and particularly on this website. I didn’t get it from Age of Autism but thanks for showing me this site so that I can explore the topic more and determine for myself why the Italian court made this decision.
Thanks for the link. I read it. …and thank you for replying in a
civilized manner, unlike others on this site.
I’m angry because children are dying due to people thinking anti-vax blogs, and celebrities are better informed than doctors, epidemiologists, virologists, and other researcher.
I’m angry because there’s no debate, vaccines don’t cause autism and have predictable rates of adverse reactions that we already account for.
I’m angry because people’s baseless fears and general stupidity is costing the lives of innocents.
Vaccines aren’t a personal thing. They’re important for everyone.
This isn’t a topic where you can say “reasonable people may disagree.” Either you’re reasonable, or you’re wrong.
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Why are you still here?
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What pisses me off most? The guy that started this shit? The paper both was discredited and the whole thing was to get people to doubt an existing product so he could sell a new vaccine and ‘home autism test kits.’
He has lead to the deaths of thousands and the return of all but extinct diseases for GREED.
I am a Christian. I should forgive and leave it in God’s hands.
I am not in a forgiving mood. This person? This former doctor? This diuchbag that KILLED people for profit?
I want him to be flayed alive and his lungs pulled through his ribcage and then his body put on public display at the center of Wall Street so the next ten thousand generations can know that the lust for profit can lead to too great a cost for too little gain.
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But you did, Blanche, you did.
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I am not 50 quite yet. I had an uncle in a wheel chair from polio. Ask your parents and grandparents if you have them how many kids they knew that didn’t make it to adulthood cause this shit killed kids on a goddamn regular basis. My generation and after have grown up not having to know that you or our best friend could die from a disease as part of our day to day lives. It was not that fucking long ago.
Besides the fact the one study has never been replicated and he was later caught with false data in it. Besides we don’t use the mercury compound anymore and it was a mercury salt that is harmless but way better a preserving the medicine. Besides the fact that vaccines DON’T FUCKING CAUSE AUTISM. Some idiot parents who grew up without knowing how bad these diseases were want to endanger their kids and other kids who either can’t get vaccinated or they are one of the few where it doesn’t quite work well enough.
Fuck them. Fuck them with a goddamn running chainsaw.
You are goddamn right we are angry.
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Really, it comes down to the stupid people not realizing that this for the fucking rest of their children’s short, agonizingly painful lives:
Is worse than this for maybe a week, two if you’re unlucky:
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Sorry, that’s not how epidemiology works. These “suicides” are bombs in the town square. They’re going to take more non-family members with them when they let their Typhoid Mary or Mark become a hotbed of preventable disease.
Also, no thanks on the eugenics. Children often excel where their parents fail, and vice versa. Letting parents let their kids die isn’t suicide, it’s infanticide by deliberate stupidity.
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Why are people so angry? That’s why. We have an easy fix for that.
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Your can stick your baby in the arm, with a serum that makes them immune to lockjaw, terrible pox and swelling. For 999,999 in 1,000,000 it is completely safe, I’d bet I’m safe using this medication because I’m “normal”.
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I think that one of the things that makes it hard to talk about gluten-free is that if you start a gluten free diet you are going to feel pretty different. For a lot of people it will mean giving up on a lot of foods they eat and replacing them with others. In the short term, for a lot of people, it means eating less. Replacing a coffee-shop-bought muffin with an apple in the morning is about 400 to 500 calories off your daily intake. I know someone who tested positive for Celiac and had to quit gluten, and I remember them saying, “This is crazy, I’m eating fries every day and losing weight.”
So I think if you discuss that issue with people you have to realize they have a personal experience with how changing their diet made them feel - especially if it caused them to lose weight in our pretty weight-obsessed society. So I feel like a prerequisite to having the discussion is hearing their experience and validating it, because then they can hear why you disagree with any generalization they are doing from that experience without feeling like you are attacking them or calling them stupid.
I find the vaccine thing way more baffling. It’s completely abstract. Jim Jeffries had a stand-up bit about getting his kid vaccinations (his girlfriend objected, he falsified a form to say she consented, he got a ton at once) and how his kid went from being happy and full of energy to being lethargic and withdrawn so he was like, “Oh shit! I gave my kid autism!”. The punchline, of course, is that his kid was lethargic and withdrawn because he just got a bunch of needles and he was back to normal in a week.
Kids change so fast at that age, I wonder if some people have an experience where their kid got a bunch of needles, maybe got a little sick from it, and then acted quite differently after being sick than before. Maybe all of the sudden they were yelling “No” every two minutes and having massive tantrums. Because that’s something that suddenly happened to one of my kids, and it had nothing to do with needles, but it could happen around the same time (and it didn’t “suddenly” happen to the other because she was having tantrums her whole life).
So that could be why Jenny McCarthy thought vaccines gave her kid autism (and gluten free bread cured them?). But it doesn’t really explain why people listen to Jenny McCarthy.
Ultimately, I don’t know what to say. Maybe what we need is help from the autistic community. Could autistic people meet with anti-vaxxers so that anti-vaxxers could learn that it’s better to be alive and autistic than dead and neurotrypical? (To be clear people with autism are just as valuable and worthwhile as people without, I’m just saying maybe we could baby step people who’ve turned autism into a boogeyman towards that)
Good luck in your conversations.
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This happens. All my kids had to be vaccinated against pertussis a couple of years ago (California made it mandatory, in part due to a mild epidemic in San Diego) and they all had a reaction to the shot that lasted a couple of days… tired, lethargic, general malaise. It took them a few days to get over it. My wife and I got the same shot at the same time and had no reaction.
Perhaps I was immune-- I had whooping cough as a kid, so the shot may have been redundant. But it was cheaper, easier, and less painful to just to get the shot than to have blood drawn to check my antibody titer, wait for the results, and then perhaps come back to get the shot anyway.
I’m not a real big fan of the general US policy of giving multiple vaccines on the same office visit. I see no advantage for the kids, and if there is a problem it makes it very difficult to diagnose.
Well, I think there is a very good practical reason to do it - fewer trips to the doctor. That’s especially a good reason in the US where visits to the doctor are egregiously expensive, but it makes sense anywhere. There’s a portion of the population who can’t imagine weighing anything against their kids’ health (which ironically overlaps hugely with anti-vaxxers), but there’s a portion of the population that can’t afford to take another day off to go get more needles when they could have just been done all at once.
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That’s a valid reason, but I’m not sure it outweighs what I perceive as potential harm. Of course, we had considerable privilege… we had excellent insurance (Kaiser HMO) and a compliant pediatrician. And that pediatrician felt the same way as I do-- she does the same thing for her kids: one shot at a time. And at the time, we were dealing with seven kids, so it wasn’t that hard to round them all up, drag them over there, and have an NP jab them all, boom boom boom. No need to see the doctor again. And the kids didn’t object, because their “reward” was a trip to McDonald’s afterward, something we seldom do.
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Thanks for your good wishes. I am currently struggling to find a way into that conversation, and to prepare myself mentally. I. Must. Not. Loose. My. Temper. Even. Once. Whatever they say.
I just want to emphasise that people I met face to face who were concerned to give their kids vaccinations, or were at least sceptical towards giving all locally refunded or recommended (NB!) vaccinations never played the autism card, at least to me. Their feeling of unease might have something to do with this clusterfuck of an “alternative fact”, but as far as I amam concerned, that is background noise. I will try not to mention the “debate” myself, as it is sure to get me on the edge of self-control.
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