Arizona high school student's racism even offends Arizona

[OtherMichael]

If all men were brothers, would you let one marry your sister?

[Falcor]

Mod note: It’s getting hot in here, so turn off all your snark.

[miasm]

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…and that’s what I think about that.

[IpoNokaoi]

‘best you’ve ever seen class of’ contains no i.
Oh, I see. n1**er.
L337speak.

[enso]

@miasm

Interviews with several kids of colour in the video in the linked article, all of whom spoke about their reactions to the behaviour and to the picture and to its posting on social media.

Ok. That’s fair.

@miasm

Do you think the privacy and perhaps subsequent unintentional (at least from the perspective of the original group of friendly racists bar one) leaking of the image mitigates the harm done?

No and I didn’t comment on that. I commented on whether this was a “threat” and “intimidation” by these folks.

@miasm

Does it mitigate the intention of harm insofar as this kind of racism does harm?

I think the intent and audience have some effect on whether this was meant as a threat to other students, as opposed to people being racist assholes.

[enso]

@SqualusAcanthias

Maybe I don´t understand the dynamics of American society well enough and it is unthinkable that teenagers there would do something offensive that doesn´t represent their actual thinking just for the sake of offense or to have a cheap laugh.

Calling people the “n” word is not something one does as an act of rebellion normally. It is much more commonly the act of a racist shit. Hell, I won’t even type the word here because of the social context of it (and social conditioning).

@SqualusAcanthias

The status of the “n-word” in America is funny. On the one hand, it´s one of the most offensive things you can say, on the other hand it´s omnipresent in the kind of music and media teenagers of all ethnic backgrounds consume constantly.

Yes but you generally don’t hear it coming out of the mouths of non-black folks unless someone wants a beating. I have black friends and neighbors. If I hear them say the word, that’s their business and within their community. As a white man, if I said it to anyone (especially one of them), I really would expect to get punched in the face.

[tlwest]

@LDoBe

Christians choose to be christian. They can escape any persecution by just not saying they’re christian, or even deconverting if they feel like it.

Black people don’t get the luxury of only choosing to present black when they want to, and they can’t just choose not to be black altogether.

See, there’s choice for the christians. There’s not a choice for the black people.

I’d be rather careful with that line of logic - it would imply that hate speech towards Muslims is not nearly as bad.

Personally, I’d stick with the powerlessness of the victims as a reasonable yardstick for offensiveness.

For example, as a straight, white, nominally Christian, middle-class male, I’m pretty much immune to any racial or gender-based insults. After all, I have all the power, and any threat implied by the insult is essentially farcical. Racial or gender based insults against the powerless, on the other hand, have a long history of being a prelude to actual violence, be it physical, economic or simply emotional.

[Verse]

Holier than thou achievement unlocked!

[m_a_t]

I will only say this: I think the fun is that it’s offensive, not that it’s racist.

[aeon]

@hello_friends

A Jewish kid in a school of not many Jewish kids might still risk trauma from a surprise swastika at school. It’s not silly if your extended family died in pogroms or camps. School should feel like a safe place for everyone.

Said Jewish kid would be well advised to avert her eyes when in the Indian quarter of many cities and not to look too closely at the pre-WWII altar dressings in many European churches. The Nazis merely appropriated and debased a very old good luck symbol. Not everyone thinks Hitler when they see one even now.

[anon15383236]

@m_a_t

I will only say this: I think the fun is that it’s offensive, not that it’s racist.

Would you mind further explaining that? Because so far, it doesn’t make sense.

@aeon

The Nazis merely appropriated and debased a very old good luck symbol. Not everyone thinks Hitler when they see one even now.

I can’t help but say, given the context here of American school property, “So what?”

[OtherMichael]

@aeon

Not everyone thinks Hitler when they see one even now.

I’m fairly certain those sniggering classmates had the Hindu swastika in mind when they slapped it on the Jewish kids locker.

[Daedalus]

I don’t want to come down TOO hard on the kids - I’m hoping they are doing the teenager thing of not really thinking through their action and all of the people it will affect, just being all “hur dur we can spell a curse word derpy doo.” I’d hope they would learn a few lessons from this, like…

• It’s still racist even if you didn’t MEAN to be racist.
• There’s a reason that word is different than words like shit and fuck and other curse words.
• Don’t think that snapchat is going to mean evidence gets removed - the computer is a machine for making copies.
• You maybe should start hanging out with more black people.

These kids seem ignorant to me rather than creatures of deliberate ill intent - educate them, and you’ll make something constructive out of their dingus behavior.

[aeon]

@anon15383236

I can’t help but say, given the context here of American school property, “So what?”

The offence isn’t in the symbol itself, its in the use of it in that context. My point being that someone brought up to abhor the swastika without an appreciation of the depth of its history outside of WWII is likely to make an idiot of themselves when it appears in an innocent context. But that would probably occur outside the US, so maybe it doesn’t matter to you?

@OtherMichael

I’m fairly certain those sniggering classmates had the Hindu swastika in mind when they slapped it on the Jewish kids locker.

Pretty certain they didn’t have the Greek or Scandinavian variety in mind either.

But if that kid is only ever taught swastika = Nazism = reminder of the Holocaust, then he would be unnecessarily scandalised by the rather nicely embroidered kurta I found in an Indian clothing store this afternoon …

[LDoBe]

Jesus, this is how I want to treat all young kids exhibiting signs of racism/sexism/other lack of empathy. Just make them walk a day or two in that person’s shoes. You catch as much as you can while they’re young, they’ll end up being better people for it.

[anon15383236]

@aeon

The offence isn’t in the symbol itself, its in the use of it in that context. My point being that someone brought up to abhor the swastika without an appreciation of the depth of its history outside of WWII is likely to make an idiot of themselves when it appears in an innocent context. But that would probably occur outside the US, so maybe it doesn’t matter to you?

You’re right, it doesn’t matter in THIS context, that is, this thread, because it’s a thread about racism in an American school. It’s not a thread about the arbitrary nature of social symbols. Which is why I don’t see why you think you’re saying something relevant, or even all that new – I imagine most readers here already realize that the Swastika is an appropriated symbol. And if American children were taught more widely that it is, sure, they wouldn’t be alarmed by seeing one in an Indian clothing store, but they would be, and appropriately so, by seeing one scrawled on a school wall or some Jewish kid’s locker.

[rossleonardy]

I wanted to respond seriously, but for all we know the student who received and reported the snapchat was a person of color and you’re suggesting they should be punished more than the white people going around brandishing the N-word… So… I just can’t.

[anon61221983]

[anon61221983]

Maybe not a direct threat of violence, but it certainly furthers an atmosphere which encourages white students to accept the dehumanization of their black peers. Dehumanization can certainly lead to more violence against the black peers. It’s not a direct appeal to violence, but it’s not exactly helpful, either.

[anon15383236]

Mmm hmm. And I’d add that dehumanization IS a form of violence.