[quote=“bwv812, post:32, topic:54628”]
Well, from the newspaper articles we explicitly know that one group of suspects “were habitually committing burglaries or similar crimes,” but it isn’t the black suspects:
>Elam said the wrestlers had in their possession items, including clothing and a briefcase, that are believed to have been taken during several burglaries. He said the police department took seven burglary reports. [/quote]
Actually we don’t know that. A habit is something you consistently repeat over a long period of time. If I did a half dozen hikes spread over a couple years I’d be a habitual hiker. If I did 6 different hikes during one weekend I just did a lot of hiking that weekend. The difference is that a habitual person does the act, has time to reflect on it, then repeats the act. There’s no reason to think the students did any reflection once they started the burglaries. It was a very seriously bad thing they did, but we don’t see evidence of a habit.
Conversely someone in their forties who goes into a burglary with a specific plan, that’s probably part of a habit. It’s not certain, it could have been a spontaneous bad act for them as well, but it’s more likely to be a habit.
Actually, if we want to get really technical, legally speaking a habit is something that is done almost reflexively. Like, if someone has a cigarette immediately after waking up every morning. Or stops at Starbucks to get coffee every morning. Or sneezes twice every time they sneeze. It doesn’t have to be the result of conscious reflection.
Habit evidence is admissible in courts, but character evidence and prior bad acts are generally not admissible because they are more prejudicial than they are probative. Simply showing someone has committed similar crimes in the past doesn’t—(even) in the eyes of the law—say anything about whether they committed the crime they are accused of committing.
And there’s even less evidence on display that the black suspects are habitual criminals. What little evidence we do have as to their prior acts certainly looks worse for the wrestlers, however.
You seem to have difficulty separating premeditation—which is the usual term for things planned in advance, as opposed to spontaneously—from what you call “habit.” It’s possible to do something for the first time at any age. It’s possible to carefully plan something you do the first time, and when it comes to crime people probably plan their fir first caper more carefully than they do subsequent ones.
Its absurd because there was no way their mugshots weren’t available. When their yearbook photos had to be looked up from two years prior, which is deceptive in age and dress.
What makes it likely a habit is the 7 burglary reports, and that its 4 guys arrested for the same crime. Four people committing a burglary is a planned effort.
Except we’re not talking about courts here, we’re talking about a news story in which case you want to give a complete picture.
We don’t have prior acts for either.
What we do have is motive.
In the case of the wrestlers there’s a lot of evidence the motive was they got really drunk and thought it would be cool and macho to go out and steal stuff.
In the case of the black guys we don’t have a motive given, in which case we fall back to the standard motive for burglary. They stole for profit.
I don’t have any difficulty separating them. But I think most guys over the age of 30 who commit burglaries are both in the habit of doing it (or similar crimes) and it’s premeditated when they do it.
Imagine if the narrative was reversed, that 3 black college students got really drunk one night and made a major mistake doing a burglaries, then the newspapers treat them just the same as a bunch of older white guys who were probably doing burglaries or other criminal activities for years. To me that sounds more offensive.
True. I saw the cap and gown photos that the media circulated but I never that gun photo before. Regarding the story at hand, I find myself having more sympathy for the mugshot guys rather than the clowns in the frat boy douche photos.
We’re talking about a news story with incomplete information and quite possibly he benefit of doubt being given to young, white, college athletes. And despite the white athletes possibly being given the benefit of the doubt, and despite not hearing both sides of the story, what was actually written looks worse for the white athletes, who fought police and broke into multiple residences/vehicles.
So you think that they went and broke into multiple places on the same night, and that the other burglaries weren’t prior acts?
We must be reading different articles. The only information I see is that they were drunk. Maybe if the black suspects were drunk or high it would, in your opinion, be better for them from a motive standpoint? And what’s more macho than stealing a gun? Certainly not stealing clothes and a briefcase.
I think adults who rob at least seven cars/buildings also act with premeditation, unless they have a weird habit of accidentally falling through locked doors or windows and accidentally removing items when they leave.
My interpretation was that all the burglaries occurred on the same night. This is a pretty critical distinction as multiple nights implies a completely different story and would change my position drastically.
19 year old jocks going on an alcohol fuelled wave of stupidity is utterly typical.
And if the black suspects were drunk or high and that the robbery appeared to be a spontaneous and uncharacteristic act that came up during the inebriation then I do think that would be better.
And when I do an image search (or news search) for those names I see a lot more player shots than mugshots.
Even if it wasn’t, the Trayvon sticking his middle fingers up to the camera picture just shows how desperate the people trying to smear his name are.
I’ve done worse, I’m sure there will be old pictures of me wearing my Geordie Gabba Mafia fuck life t-shirt somewhere on the internet. I could have been arrested on obcenity charges for that.
If we are going to be cutting anybody some slack, the men who stole for profit get my vote over the drug-abusing assholes who allegedly thought theft was shits n giggles.
Yeah, but note that virtually all of the web results are from either sports sites or the sports sections of news sites… not surprising they are focused on the sporting aspect of it. The results might be different if the reports were from the general crime/news section of a local paper, especially if they were from lower profile sports. And despite that, when I do an image search I see plenty of their booking photos/mug shots.
I personally think that if the black suspects were on PCP, cocaine, or just really drunk they would be viewed even more negatively.
And I also think that even if you rob seven cars/houses on a single night there is more than enough time to think about what you’re doing. Premeditation can happen very quickly.
Journalistically, the photos help with the theme of sporting, tie-wearing, University kids gone bad, which is more interesting than local kids gone bad.
Youthful mistakes are a thing, I would say that 19 year olds should be given a bit of slack.
Unless they’re black. Or if they steal from me. I wouldn’t think it was youthful indiscretion. I didn’t know you were allowed to steal if you’re 19, drunk and white.
per the story "Iowa ABC affiliate KCRG (which also used the yearbook photos and mugshots). It goes into more detail about the discrepancy. KCRG’s policy is to “use the best photographs of suspects available.” The statement also explains the differing mugshot policies at the two stations where the suspects were jailed.
