wonders what he planned to use the 5 bucks for
Executions are barbaric and wrong. I support a full ban on executions and a constitutional amendment to back it.
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If you support the death penalty for other people then there’s a good chance somebody can find a reason to use it on you.
So yeah, I’m with you on this.
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Liked for that quote alone. That line had more of an effect on my thinking than anything else on the subject. Thank you
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Well, that escalated quickly. This reason you give for maintaining the death penalty is the very same one that caused the State of Illinois to abandon it. And one reason we have a justice system and jury trials, why we default to letting the guilty go free if it ensures that no innocent person is unjustly punished, is to protect each other when one of us becomes potentially biased by a scarring event. The basis for this approach to justice goes back to the bible.
I too had a friend murdered, by a terrorist group. His photo is one of only two I have on my desk at work. His mother fiercely opposed U.S. Congress’ attempts to leverage his murder as an excuse to (further) arm that country’s sitting regime. In this way she honored the memory of her son who was both a blackbelt and a peacemaker.
Many loved ones of murder victims find that their need for vengeance and release was not fulfilled after the perpetrator was laid to rest. Those who have instead crossed the extraordinary bridge to forgiveness routinely express how they needed to do that more for themselves than for the perpetrator. They’ve found it was the only way the could move on with their lives.
That’s not an easy answer, and personally I have difficulty on that path. But, I’ve also had the good fortune to be surrounded by deeper thinking and more compassionate people than I am, as the same forces that put this young man in my path has brought friendships with a number of others who came to vehemently oppose the death penalty, more so the more they learned about it. This has tempered my anger and grief in ways I am sure my friend would have applauded. Perhaps some day yours will take a different direction too.
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As others have said, condolences for your loss.
Edited:
It’s also that the ratio of people executed skews seriously racist in the US:
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Really? Those are not the only choices available however; letting the guilty remain in custody is also an option
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And this, ultimately, is why I’m opposed to capital punishment. Because I do think there are some people the world is unquestionably better without, and in many cases it’s probably better for them, too, to be put out of their misery.
However, I can’t quite believe we can build a police and criminal justice system that doesn’t generate false positives. And the thing about death penalty is that it’s final. There are no take-backs. Sure, if we imprison an innocent person for years until their innocence is proven, there is no way to give them back those lost years. But we can try to make some kind of a restitution, give them a chance to live out the rest of their life.
(And even for those, who think that an occasional innocent victim is worth it as long as the real scum get it, too, it should be clear that the current US criminal justice system produces false positives at rates far beyond anything even the most callous of us should be able to accept, and in blatantly biased fashion too.)
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Yep. I’m regretting having said anything further, but I obviously don’t know when to shut up. here are some more words.
The government of Texas and many other states believe otherwise. That seems like something that needs to be changed by getting different people in office. Good luck doing that in Texas.
The state of Washington, where my relative was murdered, doesn’t have the death penalty, and last I heard his killer is still in prison. He’s been there since the mid-’90s. IIRC, he killed another inmate around a decade back.
Full disclosure, the man killed was my ex’s brother. While I’m not related to him by blood, I did experience the event along with her and her family. It was wrenching for me, devastating for her and her family.
I never proposed that. Please do not twist my points. At no time have I been saying that you mean anything other than what you said. Do me the same courtesy, or stop engaging me.
This article was about his son’s – and others – reactions to his father’s death, at – as I said – “the tail end of a series of tragic events.” At the other end is the suffering of his wife’s children as they thought they were watching their mother being taken to her death.
I agree with your point that “capital punishment is bad for everyone involved, not just the person being executed.” Nobody involved escaped this event without pain. If he had remained in prison until he died of natural causes, his family would still be suffering. But the pain his family is feeling now doesn’t obviate the pain he caused others; and none of it is worse or better than the other. The whole thing is a shit show from top to bottom, and it’s only one of thousands of cases like it across the country.
Which is why I went on to say “Of course, that’s also impossible to say. Nothing about it is “good.” Nothing.”
Since you’re unable to see my point (and it appears you aren’t alone), then we are miscommunicating, and I apologize. That’s on me. I see the connection I’m trying to make, but am failing to explain it well enough; and it might be faulty to begin with.
But no. I’m not proposing what you claim. That would be stupid.
Hmm. That’s why I put “better” in quotes. I was also trying to be hyperbolic, and obviously failed to get that across as well. I should have known better than that when discussing this topic.
If we ever get to the point where half of everyone executed is innocent, the system is fully corrupt/broken, and nobody is safe.
As far as Blackstone’s ratio is concerned:
“It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer.”
“Better” for that one innocent (and that person’s family and friends). Not “better” for any other innocent (or their family and friends) that later fall into the crosshairs of any of the ten guilty persons that are released (assuming they kill again, and I accept some/most wouldn’t thanks to @Brainspore 's comment below, but if even one did, does that make letting the ten go okay?).
If they can be successfully prevented from killing anyone else, ever again, then I’m 100% behind letting them all go once they’ve served their debt.
It’s probably pretty late for me to be stating this, but I’m not pro-death penalty. I’m just also not totally anti-death penalty either. I’m on the fence, and open to persuasion. And I have had my mind changed on things in other comment sections before. If you are looking to change my mind, attacking me over what I’ve written is not the way to go about it.
My ideal solution would be for our country to develop a prison system that actually does something toward rehabilitation, rather than acting as a for-profit cold storage that doubles as a training facility for villainy.
I would also like socialized heathcare, and an end to the stigma involved in seeking and receiving mental healthcare, with an ultimate goal of being able to identify and help – not imprison – people who are on the edge before they flip the fuck out and scatter tragedy around them like Johnny Misery-seed.
Fair enough. I’m open to being wrong. But…
Statistically, sure. But if I was his ex-wife (assuming she’s still alive), I wouldn’t feel much assurance from statistics based on how his crime was carried out. That was some pretty dark shit he did.
And there could come a point where he was released before he died in prison for any number of reasons; it didn’t have to be this time.
I agree completely. So why aren’t we? Is it because it’s such a clusterfuck at so many levels that it’s hard to tell where to start; like eating an elephant? I feel as though we should start with law enforcement and focus on cleaning that up. But I’m an advertising designer, so who cares what I think?
I will agree that someone killing someone else in a crime of passion doesn’t normally check to see if their state has the death penalty, so it won’t act as a deterrent.
Also, if someone wants someone dead in a premeditated fashion, it won’t deter them since they usually intend to get away with it. They don’t think, “oops,” until it’s too late.
As for having a higher rate of violent crimes in the US, I’m in the camp that feels that’s because it’s far too easy to get a gun in this country, and far to hard to get help. If we had zero capital punishment in the US, I doubt the levels of violent crime would drop. Our problems run deeper than that.
Jesus, this response is way too wordy. I’m bowing out now. Thank you to those who offered your condolences. While I’m not sitting here wishing state mandated death on my ex’s brother’s killer, I’m glad he’s not out on the streets. He’s a nasty piece of work, and he’s lucky he committed his crime where he did.
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Album: Sanctioned Injection
Song: You’re so Vein
Most of the execution machinery (electric chairs, lethal injection machines, etc) in America was built by a Holocaust-denying Nazi who once took a hammer to Auschwitz in an attempt to “prove” that the gas chambers never existed.
See the bit of this starting at 44:30 for the story:
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I wish I could say I only want to post this for the tune, but… check. those. outfits!
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The concept of “deserve” has always seemed to me to be one of those things which everyone more-or-less knows what is meant when it’s invoked - but upon any closer scrutiny, sort of withers from existence.
I believe it’s possible to feel that crimes as heinous as described here warrant capital punishment, and to also realize that any system - being both fallible and susceptible to corruption as we know the best that our present society has been able to achieve is, (and realistically as any human institution’s efforts are), is not capable - even in theory, of doing justice to the ultimate responsibility of taking of a human life in the name of the group or the authorities.
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This is monstrous. Kill them all and let god sort it out, is that it?
If you want to turn your country into a totalitarian horror, undoing centuries of common-law tradition, so be it. But you should at least be honest about what it is you’re advocating.
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Sigh. Did you stop there and decide to lambast me, or did you keep reading where I went over this with everyone else ahead of you? Whatever. Thank you for taking the time to let me know I’m a monster. You have yourself a fantastic weekend.
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I understand your frustration pensketch. But if you say something outrageous like that people get all fired up. I can’t be helped. And it was a rather outrageous thing to say, after all.
Just take a beer and relax, it’s only text on the internetz after all.
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You can’t make this stuff up. If he were a villain in a movie I’d think him to be ‘over the top’. 
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errol morris made a film about him called “mr. death:the rise and fall of fred leuchter jr.” it was pretty remarkable.
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That’s a pretty big assumption to make. Would you stake your life on it?
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