Funny, my spouse is a biochemist and is also very critical of the vaccination industry. Not that I would devalue your opinions and studies, but have you yourself attained the level of qualifications you are using to dismiss the anti crowd?
Anyway, I dont disagree with a lot of your beliefs. But my main concern was the hate and name calling doesnt contribute anything, and instead we should all be working together to make vaccinating children even less of a risk.
Perhaps Iâve been too vehement, but Iâve just gotten sick and tired of all the deceitful tactics of antivaxxers, and reacted vitriolically to you.
In any case, I canât argue with making vaccines even safer than they already are. But theyâre still very safe, especially the early childhood vaccine schedule. Probably the most problematic one is the Varicella vaccine, because itâs not as effective as the others, and sometimes poses a risk of mild reactions that look somewhat like chickenpox localized to the injection site.
Perhaps name calling doesnât contribute anything, but Iâm inclined to believe that in a movement it takes all kinds to get the message out there, even if some of those speaking the message seem nasty.
I let my temper get the best of me on this one, and the name calling isnât exactly praiseworthy, but the sentiment is totally sincere. People who donât get their children properly vaccinated when they can vaccinate their kids are putting them at irrational and unreasonable risk, and should be charged with reckless endangerment, or gross neglect when their kids get sick or pass the diseases on to other people.
Vaccine manufacturers make money (although not as much as the antivaxxers will try to get you to believe)âŚso do makers of child seats, motorcycle helmets, smoke detectors, hospital sanitation materials, latex gloves, and other things mandated by the government. So should we be able to âopt outâ of those as well?
Last year my doctor suggested that my wife and I renew our measles vaccinations before going home for vacation. The Antivax Tinfoil Brigade have produced enough dead and sick children to put the US on the list of countries that Japan considers risky enough to check your vaccinations before visitingâŚalong with Nigeria, Pakistan and DR Congo. Nice work.
Feel free to ask every biochemist you meet about vaccination. I donât know much about the industry, except that vaccines are unlikely to be big moneymakers. But I do know that the vast majority of biochemists you ask, including this one, will tell you to get your kid vaccinated.
Iâm not really seeing hate here, and only an appropriate amount of namecalling. Mostly Iâm seeing passion because this is an important issue that got headed in the wrong direction as a result of the way Andrew Wakefieldâs fraud has resonated with so many.
The government can stay the fuck off my body
Itâs not about your body. Itâs about the bodies of other people. Specifically:
Your children, who shouldnât risk illness and death because you donât want to vaccinate them - any more than they should risk concussions because you think its healthy to hit them with a polo mallet.
Other people and their children who shouldnât risk illness and death, because your problem with vaccines has helped illnesses to spread and dig deep.
Itâs the same as the government requiring cars to be sold with brakes, âeven if you donât want themâ. If it was just you, no problem. But you knowingly driving around without brakes makes it possible for other people to die because of your needlessly risky decisions.
Edit: And just to close off this loop in case itâs brought up: fetuses arenât people, so that attempted contrasting of pro-choice vs. pro-vaccine fails there also.
Totally agree and understand. I had to rewrite my last post several times before I thought it was mild enough not to be deletedâŚitâs really hard to tone down the anger towards people whose ignorance is so willful and deadly. These people have blood on their hands, and dishonestly hide behind the idea of âsaferâ vaccines, when they are already among the safest medicines ever developed. The statistics show that their kids are vastly less likely to be damaged by a vaccine than the disease it presentsâŚbut they donât care because they are conspiracy theorists.
In the end I donât care about their feelings, and I donât think they are convince-able. Child welfare needs to step in to make sure their kids are vaccinated if necessary. At an absolute minimum they need to be kept out of school until they have their jabs.
Oh, come on now. Brakes have significant issues contaminating the roads with asbestos, and metal particulate. They donât work 100% perfectly all the time, and sometimes using the brakes kills all the passengers!
We need to stop using brakes until big auto-parts can prove that brakes canât ever cause an accident! Just the other day, my friendâs kid was injured when he stopped at a red light and the guy behind him smashed into his rear end!
/sarc
Stop Big Brakes!
This is insanity, a Brakepad Holocaust! Itâs the disastrous result of western transportation and is leaving everyoneâs children disabled and worse off than dead!
Itâs the dirty secret big automotive doesnât want you to know about!
We donât need these harsh, dangerous, artificial, chemical-laden brake-pads. I read about an alternative - just drive into a large quantity of water and your car will naturally stop all by itself!
I just spent much longer than expected looking for a gif to express exactly how hard Iâm laughing at the idea of âhomeopathic car brakesâ right now.
I canât find anything showing someone laughing hard enough⌠My stomach and face hurts.
Thank you.
Yes, but only because it retains the memories of all the other cars that have stopped in water.
However, unfortunately this effect fades over time. As more and more cars stop in water, the effect becomes less diluted, therefore making it less effective.
(edited to add the second para)
Yeah but being married to a âbiochemistâ doesnât make you an expert either. Being an orthopedist doesnât make one an expert in neurosurgery.
Vaccines - Calling the Shots is a recently aired segment of the PBS show Nova that deals with this subject, and is worth viewing. Bottom line, as most of those who commented here seem to hold, foregoing vaccines puts those in the population with weakened immune systems at risk. I had a friend who had polio when she was a little girl, and she walked with a limp. Part of what seems to drive the antivaxxers is that some have children who developed autism after receiving vaccinationsâbut as the Nova program points out, the age that vaccines are routinely given coincides with the age that autism symptoms typically become apparent.
"Over my cold, dead body! And the bodies of my cold, dead children! And their cold, dead friends! And the cold, dead bodies of other people who had incidental contact with us!
Over everybodyâs cold, dead bodies, is what Iâm sayinâ."
It comes down to Civics, doing things that benefit wider society more than oneself. The Anti-vaxxers might (or might not) be right that the side effects are significant and the risks of contracting the disease insignificant. But doing so shifts the burdens to other people who may get infected.
Lets face it most people do most things out of self interest, and that makes it hard for things to get done that require effort from all parties. This is called the tragedy of the commons; people are naturally less interested in the health of other kids than their own.
There is no debate. Anti-vaxers are dangerously wrong; thereâs nothing to discuss.
It is sooo hard not to scream YOU SELFISH, STUPID FUCKING PRICKS! WHAT THE FUCK WERE YOU THINKING! YOU ENDANGERED YOUR OWN KIDS, BUT WORSE THAN THAT YOU DELIBERATELY ENDANGERED OTHERS KIDS! at this woman and her idiot husband
Well⌠The positive thing is that she learned her lesson. So many antivaxxers are literally religious about it, and a direct contradiction to their stupid, fearful, ill-informed, conspiracy riddled worldview will just make them double down on their efforts to make everyone sick.
The critical difference is that nobody gives a shit if youâre an idiot and kill yourself by not wearing a helmet. However, your not getting vaccinated actually affects other people (see: herd immunity).
Americans have always been slightly unhinged over individual rights, but endangering others seems like a good place for the government to draw the line.
