Because it’s a power thing, not a sex thing. It’s about someone asserting themselves as more powerful than another person.
7 Likes
Yeah, I know it’s a power thing, but one would think you need SOME of the sex thing to get your shit working mechanically. Having seen someone go through labor, I don’t think I could do that if my life depended on it. I guess I am just not wired that way.
¯\(ツ)/¯
what the holy fucking hell fucking shit fuck fuck fuck
I think there’s a divide here in the narrative of rape. Classically, rape is a crime of a random scary person, because those cases are the most visible. I think the random rapist walking the streets for victims indeed is a power trip.
Date rape we know (at least I know) is far more pervasive. Or worse yet pedophilia. Both of these things are far more common than reported because the victims don’t come forward. Sample size and all that, but I’d say based on my experiences that random rapists are the exception and not the rule.
It is likely, if ever these other categories of sexual assault get proper scrutiny, that other motivations come to the fore. But my guess is non-random rapists (i.e. the bulk) are motivated by getting their rocks off in their preferred way with little risk of punishment.
I say this because I’ve known a lot of victims personally. Some I found out anecdotally, but still none fall into the category of random attackers. And I would categorize most of them as sexual opportunists. Of course, I don’t have all the gory details, but most don’t exhibit an aspect of power from what I know.
For some people, it’s the exertion of power over someone they see as a weaker individual that turns them on, not sexuality.
If that’s not how you get your rocks off, then congratulations, you’re not a serial rapist! 
8 Likes
None of that is relevant to it being about power. Just because the rapist knows the person, doesn’t mean it’s still not fundamentally about exerting power over another person. I made no distinction.
8 Likes
Uh. There are stories about cab drivers raping their fares on a pretty regular basis.
1 Like
So, It’s insisting that rape is not about power, but it’s also full of kind of inconsistencies, stating for example that human behavior is “multiply determined” (true of course), but then denying that something can be motivated by the socio-political stew that we all dwell in? That men are basically biological machines that can’t control their urges around women. Or that pedophilia means that rape isn’t about power - well, isn’t exerting power over children also exerting power?
Rape is also a weapon in war, right? We all know this to be true - look at the end of WW2, the Balkans, wars in the Congo, the kidnapping of the young women in Nigeria, etc and so on. The guy insists that younger women are targeted at a much higher rate? Well, you could also argue that younger women are targeted (especially in cases of war) because they are fertile! Raping the women “pollutes” their next generation and asserts dominance over your enemy. This is all socio-political, right? There is nothing scientific about some other person being your enemy because they grew up in a different village, city, or country, is there? No. Because if someone was adopted from elsewhere, they’d likely still be just as devoted to where they were raised, etc.
I’m just not buying it as the primary factor in rape. To imagine that our culture has just no impact is just… naive, I think. Our psychology isn’t just internally developed, because we don’t just grow up in sterile rooms, with no interaction with others, the culture, and media. Like many other scientific fields that deal with human behavior, I suspect there is some mixture of genetics and environment which forms one’s personality and psychological make up. I can’t imagine it’s just one or the other, that’s far too reductive and simplistic an answer. I’ll give you that “natural” urges might be part of the package, but to think that it’s got nothing to do with culture is missing a whole lot of humanity.
I guess I also think better of men and know they can do better than just lust and express their base urges to have the pretty girl in their bed. Keep in mind that many of the studies cited were conducted by men, and as we all know, we can’t ever entirely erase whatever our ingrained biases are.
Take that as you will.
9 Likes
The article insists that rape as a phenomenon is not just about power. I agree that sometimes it is entirely about power, but it’s the “always” part of it that I’m contesting. One could say that rape is always about power because it involves one person exerting power over another, but that doesn’t speak to motivation which is what I’m really talking about.
Yes, but as I say, it doesn’t speak to the motivation. Pedophiles are attracted to children, not power, at least as we define it.
Thank you for bringing up science. If there’s scholarly work that interviews a large number of rapists on their motivations, and finds that clearly power is the primary motivator I’ll shut up and move on.
Admittedly, that was the weakest part of the article, him insisting that youth is a proxy for sexual attractiveness.
I’m not saying that of course.
I generally think better of men as a gender as well (being one). But individual people sure can suck at times. The article doesn’t acknowledge that there are female rapists (and there are). Several victims I know were men raped by women, and at least from the circumstances around it the stories sound very similar qualitatively to others I’ve heard–the rapist wanted sex, was told no, and saw an opportunity to get what they wanted anyways. Power being the means, and not the motive. Rapists choose to be rapists, they are not driven to it by their urges.
Some rapists are indeed primarily motivated by power–which I acknowledge. My issue with the narrative of power is that it just doesn’t seem to be so universally true given the variety of kinds of rapists (including female rapists).
I think he’s arguing it’s primarily sexually based and that there is some truth in that rapists can’t control their urges (hence it’s on the victims, at least somewhat). But the phenomenon is more complicated than that, as I’m sure you understand.
Are we to believe them, take them at their word? If so why, if not why not? And what about the invisible, motivations that they might not be aware of themselves?
Sure. My point. If it’s not about urges, then what it is? It’s not just an individual choice that emerges from an individuals own mind. It’s also cultural and collectively constituted, which is what I’m driving at about power. It often works in ways that we can’t always account for individually because it’s just so baked into the culture. If our culture regularly diminishes some people (and I think it absolutely does!), then some are going to take advantage of that, even if they don’t really have the words to describe what they are doing. Women are no less prone to being part of the dominant narrative about weakness and the ability to take advantage of it in a way that makes them feel better about themselves, including rape.
Sure, that doesn’t mean that they aren’t also driven by a desire to prove themselves more powerful than another person. They can take what they want from someone they perceive as weaker.
I’ll agree with you that motivations are not simple - fair enough. But I will hold fast to the notion that the way power operates in our culture, in such an almost invisible way, makes people act out in order to exert themselves over others. Our culture values people who can indeed act as “individuals” and take what they want. We absolutely (as a culture, not you and I individually) value powerful, masculine people who take all the things they want or need for others. I mean, we just elected a CEO as president of the US, one who most likely sexually assaulted women “because he could.” I think that speaks volumes to the hidden ideology of our society (sadly).
10 Likes
Are you aware of any good resources that lay out the case more clearly for the “Rape is about power” thesis?
To me, it is about power, but also about objectification.
If someone honestly believes that their feelings are all that matter, that your body is a toy for them, that getting their rocks off is more important than your consent… well, then they’re a rapist.
Look at how rapists talk before a trial, especially if they’re confident the “it was consensual” defence will work. They’ll often say stuff like, “I was just trying to get her to [come, squirt, [whatever]]”.
Like their sex partner is a tamagotchi or a video game.
So sure, it’s about power, but also dehumanisation.
10 Likes
I mean, I guess you could start with something like this:
There is also this, but it doesn’t seem to have a full PDF:
And then a foucauldian and feminist article about power and rape:
http://scholarship.law.berkeley.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1260&context=bglj
I’m by no means an expert, I just live in this world as a woman.
Sure, but isn’t the ability to objectify someone also about power, too, aided by the surrounding culture?
10 Likes
Absolutely, but I think throwing objectification into the mix helps explain what kind of power. Power has a lot of positive connotations too – just saying “it’s about power” can raise the “well why didn’t the victim just use their own power to say no?” point.
9 Likes
Pretty sure traditional taxi/sedan services have records and get in a lot of trouble if they are falsified. I guess it’s possible that there is a massive spree of under the table lying going on, but I imagine companies can catch on to that. Even moonlighting is difficult because the vehicle is not a personal vehicle. And the local taxis here have tracking and apps that are very close to Uber’s even if they are not as attractive. I know the name and cab number I get a ride with using he app.
Even so, I doubt that it is more or less likely than either. They both would attract the same kind of predator interested in using it that way, and even with huge bold red scarlet letters on their background check they do slip through the cracks one way or another.
That’s very true and an excellent point you got there!
5 Likes
It says a lot about how truly fucked up our society really is, while the majority live in perpetual denial of that reality.
6 Likes
Would it help your understanding to know that rapists do not always get and/or keep an erection, and that they often use other items to force penetration?
It really, really, really isn’t about sexual gratification.
4 Likes
Of course. But the issue is that when someone hails a cab there’s no record of the person getting into that cab until payment happens, and even then only if payment is via credit card. So, assuming the predator doesn’t have their victim pay first, it’s all completely anonymous.
