Catalan president defies Madrid, decrees independence referendum

Though they (and no subsequent government) have ever tried to explain what is meant by “clear”.

The Catalan question is the sort of thing that raises my eyebrow though. Two questions, one of which can only be answered if the first is answered in the affirmative.

  1. Do you want Catalonia to be a state?
  2. Do you want that state to be independent?

(Will ballots where the person voted “No” on the first but still voted on the second be considered spoiled? What exactly is a state that isn’t independent? i.e. How does it differ from the current autonomous region?)

Ah.

if you can get some of the unionists to spoil their ballots by answering the second question, it’ll boost the proportion of pro-statehood votes.

as for non independent states, they frequently have a large degree of autonomy when it comes to domestic matters, but rely on some other state for defense and foreign policy.

One useful way I found to appreciate this diversity of domestic policy arrangements is to observe that in some nation states, the regional governors are appointed by the central government, This puts a different gloss on notions of autonomy, does it not?

The clarity act was in direct response to the question in the 1995 referendum (which almost succeeded).

“Do you agree that Quebec should become sovereign after having made a
formal offer to Canada for a new economic and political partnership
within the scope of the bill respecting the future of Quebec and of the
agreement signed on June 12, 1995?”

A significant percentage (28%) of people who voted thought it would mean renegotiating the deal within Confederation. The provincial government at the time had every intention of interpreting it as an immediate and unilateral declaration of independence. Much chaos might well have ensued if they had done so (and Parizeau’s angry speech blaming the loss on ‘money and the ethnics’ was not a good sign as to what might have happened).

That said, I suspect the Westphalian state system as currently defined is falling apart at the seams. Simply put, if enough people in an area don’t want to be in your country (or occupied by your army) then it is probably best for you to leave.

That’s at least one of the arguments in favour of not defining what a clear majority means in the Clarity Act: when people truly want an independent state, and aren’t simply ambivalent on the matter, you’ll know.

(Though I suspect that’s more of a post hoc rationalization than anything.)

What would happen if the governor of, say, South Carolina organized a voting on the independence of the state? Last time this happened the US government didn’t support it warmly. I think it was in 1860.

Well, assuming that there was any support within the state for such a vote, the federal government would probably point out that South Carolina gets $1.92 in federal spending for every $1.00 in federal tax collected there. Further threaten to shut off commerce to the state, and support from all but the most ideological would vanish. I suspect that there’s probably more, and stronger, support for independence in the two most recent additions to the US: Alaska and Hawaii, both of which are both less integrated with the lower 48, with less tangible and immediately apparent benefits to the free flow of interstate commerce.

Anyone who has played “Settlers of Catalan” knows that it’s much easier to win if you engage in periodic trade alliances.

At the root the the problem there is a nearly xenophobic “we are better than everybody else” attitude. Francesc Pujols, an essential philosopher for Catalonian independendists, believed catalonians were exceptional beings because “they are children of the land of truth” and wrote: “The day will come when catalans, for the sole fact of being so, will go around the world and we’ll have everything payed for”. On a recorded interview, Marta Ferrusola, the wife of the president of the local goverment for over 20 years, despised José Montilla, also president of the local Catalonia government after his husband, because we was born in Andalucia and had a Spanish language name.

Catalan independentism is not a grassroots movement. It was artificially created in the late 19th century by intelectuals. After the transition to democracy, Catalonia was given a degree of independence that Scotland could only dream for up until a few years ago. In fact, it is this independence that allowed politicians to artificially lay the grounds for independentism in order to really gain momentum (up until a few years ago, only a very small percentage of catalans supported independentism, in fact, in Catalonia the referendum for Spain’s constitution was voted yes by 90% of the voters in 1978). They used public funded schools to, at best, pretty much ignore Spain on their curriculum. They also used publicly funded official local television and radio stations that fueled the hatred towards Spain and the idea that Catalonia has been a sovereign nation traditionally oppressed by Spain. A proof of this was seen recently: ex-president Jordi Pujol confessed had he’d kept a million euros in a tax haven; the news was a huge bomb (“patriot” takes his money elsewhere), yet TV3, the main local channel, used only 2 minutes (out of 48) to cover this in a very low-key way. The musical Les Miserables in Barcelona was given more time than that on the same newscast. Similarly, local press is heavily subsidized and speaks his masters voice. Along the same lines, radio stations with a potentially anti-nationalistic approach were denied radio licenses.

Catalonia succeeded at making all national TV news programs in Spain use Catalonian names for Catalan cities (they would claim the contrary to be disrespectful), yet they themselves use catalan names for non-catalan cities (e.g. Saragossa for Zaragoza) on their media. In reality,

every language has traditionally translated names for mayor countries and cities around the world and neighboring regions so they are easier to pronounce for the locals. But, if we decided to use ALL native names (e.g. España for Spain), then it would have to go both ways (no more “Estados Unidos”) and we would ALL have to go along that. This just goes to show how self-centered Catalan politicians are.

The truth is the are hundreds of regions around the world with their own language and a lot more different to their neighbors. We could easily up the count of countries by a an order of magnitude. And some of those might have a true history of cultural or economic oppression, none of which has Catalonia. It’s one of the wealthiest regions in Spain, so obviously there has not been economic oppression, in fact for centuries an unfair monopoly was kept for Catalonia on the clothing business for centuries and Franco would fuel the local industry (for instance, SEAT, created by the government to produce cars, was chosen by Franco to be located in Barcelona. Similarly, the central government funded the Olympics, after which Barcelona became a much popular city internationally than it was. Catalonia’s current money problems come from mismanagement of the local government, including funding of independentism. They are broke, and Spain is saving their ass, and ironically funding independentism, by giving about half of the Fondo de Liquidez Autonómica to Catalonia.

As to culture, they pretty much have full independence. Even though half their population have Spanish as their native language, you cannot attend a publicly funded school in Spanish; it’s only taught as a foreign language. Final court rulings on the issue are simply and illegaly ignored by the local government. And they heavily subsidize anything in Catalan language over anything in Spanish (books, theatre …), even all of it is Catalan culture, when in fact, up until not that long ago, catalan bourgeoisie would only speak Spanish, considering Catalan a language of peasants.

Countries just do not have constitutions that allow for the country to disintegrate, democratic or otherwise. In spite of that, I guess it might be considered reasonable for Catalonia to be able to decide, but only the there is free press, unbiased educational system and maybe another generation has passed so that 2nd generation catalans do not feel that they have to support independentosm to fit in. Only when the feeling is real as opposed to implanted to feel real. Only when one can show a Spanish flag on one’s balcony and not fear for his/her life to become hell (http://goo.gl/TDoVQc).

Unfortunately a thousand lies told by public and subsidized media have become truths for a lot of people; the lies have sank in and now people do not need that much official fuel to go on impressive demonstrations. But Catalonia was never a sovereign country. It was not even a kingdom, unlike Castille, Valencia, Majorca, Asturias or Navarre. Catalonia was just a Principality, a part of the kingdom of Aragon, which way back consisted of current day Aragon, Catalonia, Valencia, Majorca, Sicily, Naples, Sardinia as well as parts of the South of France. The hero of the Siege of Barcelona in 1714 wrote that we was defending Spain, as it was part of a War of Succession between two dynasties, and catalonians fought on both sides. Yet independentism manipulate history and makes him a fighter for Catalonian independence, 150 years before the concept was even invented. Yes, they lost independence then, but so did other regions in Spain and Europe around that time and later on as larger nations were consolidating.

Also, the phrase “Spain is robbing us” was coined bases on totally biased numbers to show that Spain was taking a lot of tax money from Catalonia and returning much less. This is largely just manipulation, as they were not counting stuff like embassies, as if an independent country could just simply not have embassies. It is certainly true that Spain, like most countries, uses inter-regional solidarity to try and help poorer regions, but the imbalance is small. While this inter-region solidarity might benefit from some capping, we are only taking fine tuning here. An independent Catalonia would try to join the EU, yet the EU would require them to economically help poorer EU countries (assuming their economy managed to stay above Europe’s average) as well as give up some of its independence.

What’s more, there is evidence from the tax police that the Pujol family (Jordi Pujol was the president for over 20 years and is the father of modern independentism) have over 3000 million EUR in tax havens from corruption that is currently under court investigation. Several businessmen have finally come forward and told the story on how the president of Catalonia himself was openly requesting a share of any sizable business that wanted to establish in Catalonia.

Also, while they insist on taking their own decisions, they will not allow the Valley of Aran, an anti-catalan region within Catalonia, to even start considering not being part of Catalonia. I.e. what they demand from Spain they will not even want to talk about it.

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Catalonia is not a part of Spain through a conquest. Just the old dynastic merging.

What exactly are those abuses that kept Catalonia as a wealthy territory to these days? In any case it was the Crown of Aragon that ceases to formally exist (they simply happened to support the king taht di not make it), and Castille and Aragon did keep a lot of independence in real life. The process of centralization and language unification is one that would take place in most modern nations.

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