Tomorrow's Catalan elections are a referendum on independence


#1

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#2

The Spanish government argued that if Catalans broke off from Spain it would cost them their Spanish nationality

This quote, more than anything, illustrates exactly how deeply the Madrid government doesn’t understand Catalunya. Nobody who is pro independence is going to be bothered by that sort of argument, because they already do not identify themselves as having, or wanting Spanish nationality.


#3

Yeah, I mean, that’s kind of the idea of becoming independent.


#4

Its more complex than that. That is a call for anybody to go and vote NO if you dont want to lose your Spanish nationality, which may be the case for some voters. But… it is also wrong, as per Spanish law it is not going to be the case (anybody that want to keep it will be able to keep it), so unless the law is changed… and then I want to see how they are going to say, in the hipotetical case, “Yes, you voted No but now you are no longer Spanish, so fuck off”

Of course the most idiotic part is that Rajoy went to the radio to say that and was schooled right there on how it was legally not so, because they cant even fucking think of checking their arguments before spewing them.

Not that I’m pro-independence or even Catalonian (for example, for much of the “this is a response to crisis and austerity”, the main party of the Yes coalition is the right wing, pro-cuts Convergencia, that has ruled the last years enacting as many recorts as asked or more, plus also being corrupt). But between the combo of the dire political leadership in Spain, and the crisis, if you can dream of getting away from it all, is kind of understanable.


#5

“national unity is fraying as regions seek to break free of the neoliberal consensus on austerity and privatisation”.

In the case of this elections this is a wrong statement. The main supporter in the independentist coalition is CIU, a right wing conservative party that has ruled in Catalonia during the last years. On their behalf, the neoliberal agenda has been pushed even stronger than in other parts of Spain, with for example privatisation in sanitary services bigger than Madrid’s region. Last polls give this coalition around a 40% support.

The only party that is both independentist and anti austerity is CUP, around 7% of the vote in polls.

Cory, if you were to know better of the situation, I am sure you would be aligning either with CATSiqueesPOT (connected with Podemos and the 15m movements that led to Occupy) or the CUP. It is deeply wrong to be anti-austery or anti-privatisation and be for JuntsPelSi.


#6

Well, the C in CiU, they split over the independence issue :slight_smile:


#7

It would have being hilarious if UniĂł was the one to split from Convergencia :joy:

By the way, every time our president speaks against independence our comedians get really happy, he is hilariously clueless.

Hell! I’m from Seville I want to split from Spain too! :joy:


#8

Good luck from Scotland, and ignore the press, especially any state press.


#9

Personally I want to live in a world where there are fewer nations, not more. Ideally a single Republic of Earth, not all this silly archaic tribalism.


#10

You could argue that then you’d just have billions of nations of individuals, or families.

I think you need to have multiple levels of arrangements. A federated system, starting at the planetary level, all power devolved to where it needs to be.

Who would you vote for as President of Earth?


#11

Why stop there? Republic of The Universe would seem most appropriate. None of these parochial, intermediary measures of culturally productive, geographical regionalism.


#12

Madonna.


#13

Ave Maria, Mater Dei, Oy Vey.


#14

This in Catalan, as much as in the morass of post-Arab-spring refugees, is the problem with sovereign fixed borders, exclusive citizenship, and nation states rather than sovereign individuals and incorporated collectives. Someday perhaps we will have dynamic overlapping gerrymandered areas of legal influence and interests on different topics generated by dynamic voting or automated personal profile interaction, but the existence of military grade weapons and who wields them as well as what to do with them screws with that pie in the sky.
Europe like most of the world has the arbitrary date frozen and increasingly unstable and unsuitable borders frozen mostly as some strong arm post-conflict/conquest settlement rather than any sort of consensus.


#15

Of course Cameron wants to keep the hinterlands in place; England’s ruling class needs a steady source of pig’s heads.


#16

Yeah! here here for Nationalist Socialism, worked really well last time.


#17

Bill Hicks, if he were still alive.


#18


#19

That’s why Madonna will gave to suffice.

Hicks would have been awesome in his golden suit.


#20

The secessionists have claimed victory. But according to the Gauardian, this was a victory for parties that advocate independence, not independence itself. More akin to the SNP’s victory in 2007 than the Referendum in 2014.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2015/sep/27/catalonia-goes-to-the-polls-live