Chabuduo: China's culture of "it's fine"

I find this fascinating and it’s not limited to China by any means. My suspicion is that it has a lot more to do with meeting demand at the pace of its increase rather than any particular lack of skill. My father and most of his siblings are Arab engineers, about half of whom were educated in the United States. A lot of Arab engineers are educated in the US, the UK, and Europe and often take their first job or two in these countries, so it’s not like the expertise pipeline is devoid of people who are taught about build quality. Yet you see shoddy builds on all kinds of products in the Arab world too, mostly in buildings in the Gulf states, many of which came up in the blink of an eye due to a constantly expanding need for housing.

When I was growing up in the UAE, the house we lived in wasn’t falling apart, but it had all of these truly thoughtless touches like light sockets where a built-in closet door couldn’t open if a lightbulb was installed (well, it could open if you were willing to smash the lightbulb.) My father, being a civil engineer, could never resist pointing these things out: Ramps that were too steep for wheelchairs, foundation problems, even poorly installed street signs (did you know that they’re supposed to bend or break away in case a vehicle slams into them? I didn’t.) But when you looked at who is ultimately responsible for the problems, it was always some building owner or company manager trying to save some money or who just plain didn’t care about the project. A relative minority of people in Gulf States buy land or property (the majority of the population is non-local) and so most of it is bought and sold by investors and businessmen,

There’s also a lot of situations where labor is thrown at problems. Build quality? Procedures? Efficiency? All of that kind of goes out the window when labor is cheap and expendable. My uncle was a mechanical engineer at a company in Saudi Arabia and he told me some horrifying stories about living there in general, and working at that company in particular. I guarantee you no company in the US is so cavalier about labor that it demands its workers jump over hot machinery that would kill them if they slipped and where the workers were barefoot in this part of the process because normal shoes made it easier for them to slip (they were not issued non-skid steel-toe boots). I really wish I could remember the details, but it sounded more like something out of Super Mario Bros. than a factory. No one gave a shit about these workers which came primarily from India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh. Fortunately no one had been killed by that particular process, yet. My uncle tried to get them to reform a lot of the processes and make them safer but he ran up against a lot of managerial intransigence. In the end he moved back to the US and sold perfumes and colognes until he passed away from Lukemia at a relatively early age, but he couldn’t take living and working there.

There wasn’t a word for this kind of thing, but it was incredibly normal, and so people accepted a lot of it. Occasionally someone important would die, and since these countries aren’t democracies, certain processes and regulations would be put into place immediately by literal royal decree, but if it didn’t kill anyone with the right connections, or if it didn’t make the news, you could expect that it would never change. A lot of that is simply ignorance that there’s a problem. A lot of Americans live in older homes and old wiring and happily plug their trendy new refrigerator with a brushed steel-exterior into a two wire outlet with a “cheater” plug without any grounding. Even in Western democracies people don’t know why there’s a grounding pin, and that’s because most people don’t learn about basic electricity. What places like the United States have are functioning technocracies that function so far below the popular political process that they’re invisible to Americans until something like Flint, MI happens.

Bookmarked. Really fascinating. Thank you.

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So the trend may have a strong component on the value placed on an individual life, both in construction/manufacturing safety and in catastrophic failure for end users. Which matches a lot of the social theory above.

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Sort of. I don’t like boiling it down so simply because I worry that people are too quick to turn it into, “China has a lot of people, so they don’t care if an individual dies.” To be clear, I’m not saying you are saying that, but I think that’s the way a lot of people think, but the reality is that the decisions and deals are made by a small minority of people with power, and there’s no countervailing force to deter these bad decisions. After that, people’s deaths from the problems this causes become “normal.” Never underestimate the ability of a human being to grow accustomed to the world around them. In that respect, there’s less value placed on an individual life.

It becomes like cancer or traffic accidents (which we are remarkably blase about), “these things happen.” Occasionally people get into the discussions of “something should really be done about this,” but in a lot of these countries, there isn’t the same sense that you can accomplish anything by complaining, and a very real risk that what you’ll accomplish is having the PTB come down on you for it.

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True - part of it is normalization via exposure and the More People=Less weight on the value of an individual life is probably an oversimplification. Some of it goes back to infrastructure things like legal systems where an individual (or their survivors) can act out against monolithic corporations successfully, which is something that we sorta take for granted in Modern America/post-worker’s rights movements.

Yeah - it may not be cash in envelopes, so bribery isn’t the right term, but it is still rooted in a system with moderate to high corruption.

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We should send the Sigmas themselves over to China to train folks:

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Exactly.

As the supply department at our lab, we did Six Sigma training maybe a decade ago to try improving reagent quality and prep processes, etc. Most on the team only trained at the lowest level (green or yellow belt?). And if the ideas behind Six Sigma aren’t the end-all-and-be-all of process improvement, at least some of them seemed like a good starting point.

I don’t remember there being much of a cultic aspect to our implementation, but I guess I could see that happening at a place where the managers were much more gung-ho about the whole thing.

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yeah, I’m going by popular conceptions rather than personal experience here. Incidentally, it sounds like it’s a better fit for an analytical chemistry lab than for a television network; even one owned by Jack Welch’s GE.

I wish I could repeat the tales a friend has told me about setting up and supervising manufacturing in China unfortunately he swore me to secrecy. Let’s just say they weren’t nice stories.

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Japan as well oftentimes. Sorry for the double reply, multi quote doesn’t work on mobile.

It does, but not very well.

In order to get it to work, you need to click the quotation mark button in the toolbox at the top of the post, and then select the next area to be quoted.

I’ve complained about it, but no fix yet.

Having been in two different companies who put through six sigma programs, my take is that they work great when they involve listening to what first line employees are telling you about flaws in the workplace layout and workflows.

They don’t work when the flavor of “Hi, I’m the consultant three years out of college and I’m here to tell you how to do your job” creeps in, and they don’t work when it becomes clear that what management really wants is some time and motion study to speed up the line.

The real cultic aspect of six sigma is when claims are made that it will make products of higher quality, make products cheaper, make the workplace happier, make the workplace safer, raise the bottom line, increase customer satisfaction, wax your car and walk your dog, all with no tradeoffs required.

Dilbert counters that quite nicely.

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More work than its worth. Easier to multi reply.

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