I think it depends on the person. I have no doubt that AA can be a really helpful program to get someone sober for life. But my view on it is that it can also lead to an unhealthy focus on the problem, making alcohol totally taboo rather than practicing self control and avoiding binging. With that kind of attitude when someone relapses they’ll crash and burn, because even though they haven’t been drinking because it’s taboo it creates a conscious and subconscious obsession.
5 Likes
Of course. There was zero doubt about the verdict. Now I hope the sentence given is appropriate. And in my view, the only appropriate sentence is the death penalty.
2 Likes
There was zero (reasonable) doubt about his guilt, but that is not the same thing. The verdict was unsurprising but not a foregone conclusion.
1 Like
The online cannibal communities didn’t exist, yet. Apparently they do now.
For me an interesting (nauseating? infuriating?) parallel to Roof is Adkinsson, the guy who shot up the Knoxville Unitarian Church during the children’s pageant.
Adkisson stated that he had targeted the church because of its liberal teachings and his belief that all liberals should be killed because they were ruining the country, and that he felt that the Democrats had tied his country’s hands in the war on terror and they had ruined every institution in America with the aid of major media outlets. Adkisson made statements that because he could not get to the leaders of the liberal movement that he would then target those that had voted them into office.
Adkinsson’s house was full of books by the likes of Bill O’Reilly, Bernard Goldberg and Ann Coulter, and his rhetoric matches hers so precisely that it’s impossible for me to believe he hadn’t been deeply influenced by her frequent calls for hate-fueled violence.
5 Likes
I feel like there needs to be a Venn diagram here. There are millions of racists and tens of thousands of militants ones. Maybe more. But almost no mass killings in the name of White Supremacy (as in what we are talking about here, not talking about conquest and wars). The racism gave him a focus, but I think the crazy is made him go through with it. Just looking at him in the pics and the court room photos etc, that guy ain’t right.
So my point is, he doesn’t have to be radicalized by anyone. He could be crazy guy who was a racist and killed a bunch of people. He could have had none, some, or a lot of support from others. I am not even saying that he wasn’t influence by others. I am just saying doesn’t require someone else. I see little difference between this guy and Adam Lanza, except Roof had a motivation we can at least sort of comprehend. But him going through with it is still incomprehensible.
1 Like
My reply was more to say he could have been self-radicalized and crazy, or just a racist who was crazy. I don’t know what the limit is before we consider someone radicalized.
But according the quoted sentence, does that mean the Orlando Night club shooter was also radicalized and “a symptom of a larger, terroristic pathology”? Or was he lone, crazed wolf, pledging allegiance to a group he had never met?
Why do you ask?
2 Likes
Because both of those cases seem similar - they both had Ideological beliefs, mental issues, and were, IMO, crazed lone wolves.
Thirty seconds of Google.
10 Likes
Thanks for pointing that out. I have never heard about any of those things before.
I am talking about now, modern times, we don’t have people shooting up black churches on a regular basis. That is why this case is so shocking. Yes there is still racial violence, tension, and systemic violence and discrimination. Making this statement isn’t to say there aren’t a ton of problems in the US.
My point is, with all the talk and slurs, very few of them are actually cray enough to murder innocent people in a church.
ETA - 5 secs after posting I added "(as in what we are talking about here, not talking about conquest and wars). " as to try to make it clear we are talking about now, and not the many historical examples. Maybe you missed that, or disingenuous point is disingenuous.
2 Likes
It’s mostly arson; they usually don’t have the guts to murder face to face.
The fact that white supremacist violence is a bit less overt today than during the 19th century isn’t surprising, though.
Terrorist violence against an underclass is about cowing them into submission; it peaks when resistance is highest. The African-American community is already thoroughly dominated; no need for more than an occasional reminder to keep the situation stable.
11 Likes
The links I posted were neither wars nor conquest.
3 Likes
i think it’s worth adding that simply finding him guilty – and treating him as a lone gunman – doesn’t help anything. as xeni pointed out – self-radicalized is not the case here.
a true justice for something of this scale would involve a systematic effort to address the root causes, and seek out those who supported roof online. it would also involve approaching the african american community and saying what can we – as government – do for you now.
treating this as isolated incident by a mentally unhealthy individual accomplishes nothing in stopping this from happening again.
4 Likes
I suppose that’s right. But, c’mon. No way the jury could possibly come up with any other verdict than guilty.
1 Like
That’s a messed up apple. But you’re comparing it with an orange.
In this trial, the defendant admitted to the crime(s). The defense team made no effort to deny the fact that their defendant is guilty.
Specifically Matthew 5:38-39
3 Likes
See my note about Dan White above. Convicted of manslaughter instead of First-degree murder and ultimately only served five years for gunning down a mayor and a groundbreaking civil rights leader. A conviction is never a sure thing until it’s done.
2 Likes
Why?
2 Likes
I believe the death penalty should be applied to only the very most heinous crimes. I see this as one of the rare cases where the crime rises to that “heinous” level.
