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Probably one of many attempts to shout at a brick wall
The author does quote some interesting insights into “spiritual warfare,” though.
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Guess who’s going end of times end of times.
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“We need God back at the center of our country,” she added.
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I try to be accepting. I really do. I know some really good people who are Christian. But honestly I just don’t understand how.
People, and especially groups of people, are never entirely good or bad. I accept that. But at what point do you just come down and say that no, this is not an intrinsically good thing no matter how much good they’ve done?
I mean, the largest Christian organization in the world helped its officers rape children. Not just knew, but helped shelter them from justice and give them access to more children - not a couple times, but systemically, knowingly, for decades. Possibly centuries. They’ve produced some great artists and thinkers, but they also have a 1500 year history of slavery, oppression, wars, and genocide.
In the US, Christianity gave us Martin Luther King and Jimmy Carter, but it also gave us manifest destiny, Christian Identity, the KKK, televangelism, and CPAC. And that’s without even touching on just how intrinsically connected prosperity gospel is to both capitalist exploitation and white supremacy.
Just how many homeless people do you need to feed to make up for a trans person tortured into being straight? How many abortion clinic bombings do we forgive because someone quit drinking through AA? What’s the real over/under there?
Because whatever good Christianity may have done, whatever it claims, it is still directly connected to, if not outright responsible for, literally millions of people murdered, tortured, oppressed, raped, falsely imprisoned, and re-educated at gun point. Those aren’t isolated petty offenses, we’re literally talking about our most heinous and unforgivable crimes.
That’s a lot of blood to wipe clean.
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That’s at the root of my rejection of the very idea of me becoming Christian, but I take it a bit farther arguably. All of these people, great masses of them, have done these abominably vile things in the name of Christianity, and the all-powerful, all-knowing entity at the center of the religion didn’t put a stop to it?
Non serviam.
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it occurs to me that while many people write rep. bobblehead (Q-CO) as a “dumb broad” (if i may be forgiven using that ugly turn of phrase), she is definitely a useful idiot in that she is and has been trotted out to make these ignorant statements by forces deeply entrenched in xtian nationalist hate. her tentative, simplistic understanding of radical evangelical talking points make it easier, perhaps, for her to spout such bullshit with enough confidence to bring in even more low information xtian voting idiots. they don’t need to be amplified or normalized.
while a non-believer myself, i don’t wish actual big ‘C’ christians any ill. but as so many have already said, those trying to make the u.s. a theocracy need to be stopped. those are, IMO, responsible in large part for the shrinking of church membership.
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Because some of the basics of Jesus’ message isn’t all that bad… just basic kindness, really.
I still argue that the problem is more systems of power that use whatever tool at hands to control and manipulate large masses of people, and that can come with any sort of ideology, not just religion. I will also argue that context matters, and if someone comes up spouting bigoted nonsense, for whatever reason, you call them out and try to set them straight. But I think it makes no sense to reject people doing the same good work we probably hope to do in this world just because they profess a belief we don’t hold.
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Totally Freudian.
Something, something, intentions… something, Hell…
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I think the OP’s figures for the Netherlands are out of date: closer to 35% now.
For me, going to a Christian primary school (there are “public” schools in the Netherlands that have no religious foundation, but all schools are publicly funded) my teachers exemplified a flavor of Christianity that I still can’t really find flaws with. They were egalitarian, inclusive, empathetic and encouraged critical thinking and reading the Bible as a historical artifact and allegorical document. It wasn’t long before I realized that none of what I liked about all of that necessitated belief in God. Given that there are many religions, it made more sense for all of them to be made up than for one to be correct and all the others to be wrong. Figured that out during a comparative religion class in the first year of (ecumenical) high school.
I think that exposure to the wider world tends people towards agnosticism or atheism, which is probably why fundie communities tend to either be isolated or isolationist.
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Christianity continues to decline because “Christians” have redefined the religion as something very different than what Jesus preaches in the four gospels.
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My understanding of “being Christian” as of late is that the only qualifying factor is stating “I accept Jesus Christ as my lord and savior.”
That’s it. That’s all you have to do. Say yes and go to heaven, any other answer equals hell for eternity. Good deeds don’t get you into heaven - Jesus is the only way. You can be a total jackass your whole life and as long as you repent on your deathbed you’re good to go.
It’s really like a loyalty oath.
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The extremist christo-fascists have come to dominate the idea of what a “proper” Christian is and should be, when the reality is that there are lots of ways to be a Christian.
True, but the non-fascist Christians seem unable or unwilling to stop the fascist ones, other than by weakly protesting, as so many have in this thread, that their own Christianity is the Good Kind and the fascist version is the Bad kind. With allies like that, you don’t have allies.
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Do you really believe that there have not been religious people out protesting the rise of fascism, especially in things like the BLM protests? Because they have.
Just because that doesn’t get covered by the media doesn’t mean it does not happen. Their preferred narrative on Christianity in America is that it is entirely on one side of the political spectrum (generally conservative) and it is lily-white. That’s just not the case, and it never has been. It’s a vocal minority that is getting all the press. But American Christianity is far more diverse and has its leftist wing that is actively a part of protest movement and has been pretty much since the rise of the reform movement in the 19th (and further back, with regards to abolitionism).
But yeah… plenty of Christians who speak against fascism. Here is Cornell West getting arrested at a protest
This one is Sen. Warnock, being arrested at the US capital years before he was a senator but was a pastor:
This guy was knocked down and had his head cracked open by the cops, and is part of the Catholic workers movement:
Here is (what looks like) a Catholic priest supporting BLM:
We really need to let fascist stop controlling the narrative. It’s more often than not just factually wrong, but it does nothing but drive divisions that don’t need to exist.
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Right? My stepmom’s sister is Quaker, and she’s out there every election cycle knocking on doors in attempts to right fascist and racist wrongs in government. 
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People seem to have forgotten that Quakers exist, or that the Black Church exists, or that most major cities have Christian churches (and synagogues and mosques and temples, etc) of various denominations that regularly fly BLM and LGBQT+ flags… Just yet more evidence of how people are just willing to accept the right wing narrative, even if they count themselves as anti-fascist. 
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It’s consenting to a sort of demonic possession. But a good demon. Such a state would make you do good things, if that’s what god intends. If you do good things of your own accord, but haven’t agreed to be possessed, god won’t save you from hell.
I hope that walks the fine line between insight and blasphemy,
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Wow, I didn’t realize that the more than millennium of theological disputes and schisms over works versus faith had all been resolved. It must have been very recent…I’m surprised they were able to get all the different churches on board.
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I’m just trying to understand these polling numbers: when someone responds, “Yes, I’m Christian,” are they saying they have faith that Jesus is the only way. If they didn’t believe that, instead regarding Jesus as a cool guy with good ideas, why identify that way?
Do people check the box labeled Christian just because it makes them feel good? No subconscious “Not-Christian therefore heathen therefore bad” thing going on? (I’ve obviously been overexposed to the wrong sort of Christian)
ETA, intended as a reply to @chenille
