City of San Francisco tells man he can't live in wooden box in friend's living room

Yes, it is an issue as it stands as far as the law/rules are concerned. My point is not that it’s not a problem as it is, but that it would be trivial to obtain a high percentage of the desired function while still technically falling within the right side of the law, unless the rules suddenly change or are reinterpreted in response to a redesigned structure.

In Boulder, there are specific rules that only apply to new houses that are 5,000 square feet or more. I’m sure there are 4,999 square foot houses being built precisely to avoid falling under those rules.

Hey kid, that will be $300 a month plus utilities!

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These tricky situations covered under the power of enforcement and interpretation of the building code given to the Building Official.

Basically, it’s whatever they say it is if not prescribed specifically elsewhere.

Codes, not rules.

Yeah, it is a problem, because this living box doesn’t meet code. As I and others have repeatedly explained to you, Mr. Berkowitz’s box was built, being used, and rented as a separate room, and as such it must meet all applicable city, county, and state fire/seismic/life safety codes and rental laws, despite the stridently ridiculous protestations of libertarian idealists using poorly-considered logic to clamor for their absurdist dystopia of freedumb.

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that’s not so much a living space as it is a pet crate for humans. (will less breathing holes!)

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I understand the current usage. As I have repeatedly explained to you, if this guy needs a place to sleep he can make modifications to both his agreement with the leesor and the sleeping arrangement to just meet whatever code applies while still maintaining the privacy that the original enclosure was obviously designed to meet.

You keep railing about libertarian utopia, but I’m no libertarian. Libertarianism seems to have developed into a handy excuse for assholish behavior toward specific people/genders/orientations or an excuse for destructive unfettered capitalism, and none of those things are my bag. There’s a difference between a philosophy that dictates that “I can do whatever I want as long as I am making money” and letting someone try new things to make the best of a difficult situation…

Funny thing is, I used to know a guy who lived in a pet crate in a Bay Area house. By choice, that is. But I think that was driven by something besides finances.

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i get the desire to downsize and the minimal aesthetic, and even the small house movement, but this is ridiculous, haha

Actually, just taking the lid off would be a huge step forward in bringing it up to code. It’s more about “please don’t create an enclosed place that could start a fire and kill everyone” sort of thing. There are codes about clearances around lightbulbs in closets for the same reasons.

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There’s not a bed in there. That is a temporary play structure, not a bedroom.

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I was referring to the statement about a building manager’s power to nix “structures” that are susceptible to fire…

There are, actually. In New York, for example, any space designed for sleeping needs an operable window with access to exterior air and a closet. That is a defined sleeping area per code. If a homeowner was to do this and then put it into international coverage in a website they would get a call from the housing inspector.

Paid guest thing is less of an issue. I can sublet a New York apartment and charge the subletter 10% extra per city code. Having him stay there is not the issue, it’s that he’s enclosed himself in a separate room not suitable for sleeping.

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One of my points about this is the “start a fire”. There’s a difference between starting a fire and being engulfed by a fire that is happening in the environment surrounding. If the problem is that the structure could catch on fire if the apartment is already on fire, then I’m pretty sure that there are a lot of objects in the apartment that would be a problem as well.

The biggest problem I see is that there is 110V power into the box, not the material that the box is made from.

The room isn’t the issue. The issue is the bed.

Beds need to be in a room with a window with natural light and air. They also need 7’-6" of headroom. A second means of egress. A closet. https://thefrontsteps.com/2011/03/24/what-makes-a-room-a-bedroom/

The issue regarding fires is that when you are sleeping you are not as aware of your environment. A fire then sucks up all the oxygen. In a room without a window you are going to die. The fire then spreads to the rest of the apartment destroying property and injuring others.

Now, why 7’-6" of clearance? Why such a big window? I can fit out something less than 20" wide. Simply put, it’s not for you. It’s for the fireman who has to trundle in there with all their gear on to drag you out before you die.

You can create all kinds of shit around your house as long as you don’t intend to sleep in there. I can put a couch in an attic with zero headspace and one egress down a ladder because it’s not a space designed for me to sleep. That I fall asleep there during the game is irrelevant per code, but a bed literally has one reason for existence: creating a place to sleep. If he’d erected a little tent around his couch and said he liked to pretend to camp there but not sleep the housing department would have shrugged their shoulders.

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Eh, I’d say its about the enclosure of the bed rather than the bed itself.

If he had the bed in the same open space it would be okay by code.

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Um, yeah. That’s what I said.

So you can have a bed in the open space.

You can build the enclosure in that space.

You cannot put the bed in the enclosure. Therefore it is the bed in the enclosure that is the issue.

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Are you calling me a slumlord? :smiling_imp:

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Dear sweet baby Cthulhu, pass me the brain bleach!

This article on is a couple of years old but it still presents a great primer on the housing situation out there.

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Do you want me to call you a slumlord? #weirdturnons

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