Youch!
Itâs nice seeing this exact point laid out patiently in clear unequivocal terms about forty times per thread. This is a particularly good example, it would be nice to be able to just pin it somewhere and point to it. Forty times a thread. Because people just donât get it. Like, ever.
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Except Sarekeesian has never, ever, to my recollection, in any of her Tropes vs Women in Video Games made that statement.
So, thereâs that.
Also, Iâm not your mate, pal. Iâm not your pal, buddy. Iâm not your buddy, sport. Aussies have a tendency to use the term âmateâ. Sorry it wasnât to your liking. >.<
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Does BoingBoing have a bozofilter?
Huh. Thatâs not the one I brought up, either.
I hate to admit it, butâŚIâve watched it from afar, and yeahâŚthings like the snarky comebacks, referring to her critics generically as âgamersâ, etc. doesnât help.
None of that excuses it. Not by a long shot. But my guess is that, when you get down to it, sheâs getting a bunch of socially awkward 14-year-olds (you know, the kids who yell about âcuntsâ and âJewsâ on games with the ability to talk to fellow playersâand we keep giving the little shitheads attention.
Male allies are essential in the fight for gender justice. âWhite Knightâ is a slur used to discourage men from taking a stand.
The first time I ever heard âWhite Knightâ, it was from a feminist, directed against me, because some dudebro was hurtling abuse at her on the Internet and I was getting pretty angry about it. I got a fair amount of sarcastic abuse, from the victim. Wasnât the last time it happened, either; I eventually just stopped standing up for women online, because it was made clear to me that I was treating women like they were basically weak and needed a manâs protection.
And nowâŚsmh.
As evidence that itâs probably socially awkward kids, hereâs a bunch of rape and death threats, rewritten to mention Sarkeesian, but were actually originally directed toward Jack Thompson, the guy whose primary sin was that he criticized the video game industry for producing violent content, that teenagers were using games as âmurder simulatorsâ iirc. I think many of us agree that video games donât make people violent. So, aside from the fact that Thompson actually sued game makers, what makes his actual critique less valid, and what makes the rape and death threats against him less serious?
I think the main difference here is that Jack Thompson was pretty much a trolley (have a wander through the Thompson-related articles on Game Politics for examples) who was all about censorship. Sarkeesian is a critic, not a censor, and she hasnât engaged in the inflammatory behaviour that Thompson was renowned for back in the day.
That is not to say the threats made to him are somehow less bad - just that using what happened to him to compare to Sarkeesian is like comparing apples and something that isnât even a fruit.
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Iâm not sure censorship vs. criticism is that big of a differentiator. Think back to the abuse heaped on Tipper Gore by Jello Biafra, Dee Snyder, John Denver(!), Joey Ramone, Frank Zappa, Megadeth, and Anthrax because she lobbied to get labels put on albums. She wasnât even trying to get the music changed. I donât remember that kind of abuse being lobbed at Al Gore for pushing for the Clipper Chip.
I donât think some game fans see the difference between game companies taking the criticism to heart, and censorship, to be honest, especially when game journalism outlets are insta-banning comments that even seem to disagree, and I think looking at the mid-80s response to Gore bears that out. I mean, Hook In Mouth is a reaction to the PMRC. And the trial was about voluntary labeling.
And of course, thereâs the dickhead brigade thatâs likely shouting about âPC bullshitââŚmeh.
(It pains me to admit that I used to like that Anthrax song, mainly for the shocking language, the pro-First Amendment message, and the kickass cover of the Bonanza theme.)
Well, the people hurling the threats donât seem to see the difference, but we do, so comparisons between Sarkeesian and Thompson donât really work. They are two people connected by the fact that they have both had video games made about attacking them. Jack Thompson is distinguished as being the guy who was disbarred for filing bogus lawsuits. I think thatâs enough difference for me.
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Free speech doesnât give you the right to force your speech on someone else - it only protects you from the government censoring your words.
Ummm - I read her kickstarter where it lays out specifically why she started the video series - what she will do for the money given - and what the parameters of the project are? None of them state start/or have a discussion.
In progress⌠Iâm working on trying to figure out the new twitter auth-system for bot-appsâŚ
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Now youâre being willfully obtuseâŚ
In case youâre not, you âgetâ that when say that some users may not see it that way, and given that, they may be reacting in a similar manner to both Thompson and Sarkeesian, right?
I agree with his point there, but I still feel like the parts she shows arenât always sexist. For the last video she had to focus almost totally on mafia games, well of course any open world mafia game is going to have strippers and prostitutes, that is unfortunately part of their business theyâre bad guys. It being an open world game of course theyâd be non-immortal. Sure some of the scenes are gratuitous but I honestly donât even remember the strip club in Mafia 2.
I can understand some of it, but it felt like she really missed the point in The Darkness 2, it was probably one of the most depressing crawls through a whore house Iâve ever had in a video game, maybe discounting VtM: Bloodlines where they were using the women as livestock. I just watch her videos and usually stop because it doesnât feel like she suggests any real solution or ever brings forth good examples. I mean in Yakuza the Host Club minigame has women who have likes and dislikes, dynamism, names, etc. Is that what she wanted or not, she mentioned something about it, though it would seem to be aware youâre criticizing a lot of crime games and look at what is sometimes erroneously called the Japanese GTA.
The main issue is theyâre videos that arenât for your average gamer, and while journalists and other people seem to enjoy them very much, youâre always going to hear this shit from the peanut gallery. Same as with pewdiepieâs garbage, some people just donât like it and keep talking about it.
I realize the irony there but I saw this post while googling her name and figured Iâd check it out and felt like crapping out my opinion, enjoy.
Yeah, man- they told me it was IRN-BRU. One of them had a mustache and everything!
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survivor of countless outraged misogynist stalkers
Survivor of Internet threats? Well thatâs surely a feat. Or did you mean they all died (of misogyny, I suppose)?
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Why couldnât they be bad girls? Why couldnât they be gay bad guys? Why couldnât they visit a Chippendales?
These are choices made by the developers and designers, out of a myriad of choices.
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Frankly, that would make for a waaayyy more interesting game. If video games are part of the continuum of escapist entertainment, then swing for the damned fences.
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Well I donât disagree GTA5 would have benefited from a female main character. It worked fine in Saints Row 3 I felt.
However thereâs an obvious reason --beyond two of three of them being licensed works and the third being heavily inspired by licensed work-- why in The Darkness 2, Mafia, and Godfather they are not visiting Chippendales and why they are not all women. You understand right? Itâs almost like complaining that all the characters are shown as Italian-American and stating thatâs offensive. These are just thematic issues. Sure a lot of it is overt but the scene in the Darkness 2 I felt was particularly well done. Further the scene where your friend urges you to check out a womanâs breasts. That is sexism sure, but itâs in the CONTEXT of the story. Itâs just an inexorable part of writing a Mafia story to a point.
I mean she did mention racing games too, which I could post the same defense of, but I think thatâs more of a valid criticism. It would be fine to not have the race girl there, and I guess as well they could have just cut prostitution and replaced it with another Casino in both New Vegas and The Darkness, so I dunno maybe that would have been best. I mean New Vegas had male prostitutes apparently if thatâs worth anything.
Ugh. The abuse train continues to fly the #GamerHate tag
Thereâs a new game coming out called Hood of Darkness where you play a ⌠wizard⌠of a grand secret society of knights, dedicated to protecting womenâs purity and an traditional way of life.
There are parts that some might find offensive. But these are just thematic issues. Further, the scene where your friend urges you to put the blowtorch closer to the misceginistâs genitals. Thatâs problematic, sure, but itâs in the CONTEXT of the story. Itâs just an inexorable part of writing a Klan story to a point.
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