So to be clear, then, it seems we agree that: 1) Dickheads hurling death threats likely don’t see a huge difference between what Sarkeesian is doing and what Thompson was doing; and 2) There is a difference and bringing up Thompson as an analogue to Sarkeesian isn’t a meaningful comparison except for the purpose of trying to understand some of the thinking that goes into the more animated criticism.
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Honestly you’re so out there I don’t know where to start. I guess I’ll start out stating that your post is just really unfair. I don’t know if you think you’re making some really great point or if you’re just trolling the comments, but unfortunately I’m going to respond to you as if it’s the former. Also in the Interest of full disclosure I’m more focusing on The Darkness 2 and Mafia 2. I never played the Godfather games because I heard they’re bad.
While I’ll agree the Mafia probably should be viewed in the same way as the KKK, they’re not, they’re very often romanticized and there’s a lot of literature, movies, and games about them. So coming back to reality for a second, no writing a Mafia story is not the equivalent writing a KKK story. The Mafia is not the KKK in the opinions of your average American, sorry.
Since you’re implying that they are the same, do you think no Mafia stories should be in gaming ever again? Or do you think the solution is to sloppily gender swap source material and have a bunch of women who are terrible human beings engaged in the sex trade? Or I guess we could write the Mafia as completely progressive and lacking in any misogyny or involvement in the sex trade?
I mean it’s got to be one of those things you’re suggesting if you think writing a Mafia story where Mafioso are sexist is the equivalent of writing a story about the KKK where they torture minorities.
Well, you have to take it in CONTEXT.
While I’ll agree the KKK probably should be viewed in the same way as la cosa nostra, they’re not, they’re very often romanticized and there’s a lot of literature, movies, and games about them.
Birth of a Nation at filmsite.org
based on the novel and play, The Clansman.
http://www.resist.com/racistgames/index.htm
Tradition!
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Uh are you really suggesting that the KKK enjoys the same romanticizing and popular media focus as the Mafia? Well I’ve got nothing else to say then.
Welcome to the cherry orchard - here’s your basket.
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It’s pretty good and on point, and thoroughly debunks Thunderf00t’s argument. “But you were too busy accusing Anita of misrepresenting the game, to notice that, in fact, you were misrepresenting the game.” He goes on to show more footage from YouTube playthroughs of Hitman series games, which unmistakably illustrate Sarkeesian’s points.
EDIT: Later on, the video shows a clip of Thunderf00t ranting on why Sarkeesian has no right to feel threatened. The man is disgusting.
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Hmmm… Well, the critique of Anita Sarkeesian is indeed dishon-, err I believe disengenuous is the word we’re looking for. Disingenuousness seems to be at the heart of all political “debate”, as far as I can tell. You take a strong point, that can’t really be refuted, then connect it to the point you are actually trying to make, thus creating the illusion that the point you are trying to make can’t be refuted. Then your opponent takes a strong point, which may only be tangetially related to the original strong point, if at all, and uses that to conclude that the point you are trying to make is wrong.
Anita Sarkeesian certainly got my attention, I haven’t played any of these games in question, and I had no idea that there was so much violence against women being graphically depicted in today’s games. I found some of the footage shocking. Strong point. She lost me with her conclusions though. Being undeniably correct about some things doesn’t mean all your thoughts are correct.
I wouldn’t really need to express my opinion about this at all(and honestly, I guess I don’t really need to, because who cares what some ape thinks) but unfortunately, only the asses making videos and death threats are presented as dissenting opinions.
While I would describe myself as sympathetic to just about all the causes that would be described as “left” politically, but I am completely fed up with the tactics and rhetoric surrounding these ideas.
disingenuous: Not candid or sincere, typically by pretending that one knows less about something than one really does.
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I have wondered about this as well–that you see the worst kind of misogyny in video/computer games, but the gamer demgraphic is often stereotyped as socially awkward with little chance to date the women that appear in these games. I wonder if this hatred towards women–this indulgence in the violent abuse of women is not in small part based on resentment and kind of a immature, childish anger directed at these “hot women” that in real life will not give the majority of these male gamers the time of day (kind of takes you back to Shermer High School in “The Breakfast Club”).
I just don’t see this level of violent misogyny/degradation of women in the subculture of sports and other predominantly male subcultures outside the “geeky” ones (rape when it occurs is still considered wrong)–there, men may be as sexist, but with real relationships with women men tend to recognize that their wives and girlfriends are human beings.
Off topic: If you ever run a master class on how to have spirited debate on touchy subjects without hulking out, I’ll be the first to sign up.
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It turns out that #GamerGate was being coordinated by a group on 4chan. Zoe Quinn was lurking on their IRC channels and logged their planning; she’s just been posting it on Twitter.
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also http://www.examiner.com/article/gamergate-revealed-as-misogynist-and-racist-movement-from-4chan
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When I and others tweeted about this, the remaining GamerGate hashtag enthusiasts–their numbers depleted by the well-documented revelation of 4chan users’ manipulative involvement
Numbers depleted? What are you talking about?
http://topsy.com/analytics?q1=%23gamergate&via=Topsy
It seems to still be going strong.
Don’t let that fool you. Sock puppet accounts and burner accounts now dominate the effort, often tweeting identical or similar things. Before Zoe Quinn released the IRC transcripts and other data, I would get myself (and see in response to other people’s tweets) a large array from several to dozens of clearly unique individuals who had more than a handful of followers and accounts that weren’t just created. Afterwards, it has almost entirely switched to semi-automated responses or attack strategies.
The ferocity is down, too. Maybe people are talking about it with each other, but the attack profile has changed significantly and noticeably.
Moved to the existing GamerGate topic from here: The Lottery at XOXO 2014
Glenn can likely answer that, and I haven’t been following it closely. That said, near the outset, GamerGate was a big-tent thing whose participants saw it as a culmination of longstanding ire at enthusiast-press sleazery such as junkets and advertiser influence. When the “4chan” stuff was exposed, though, it made it look like the whole thing had been promoted to cover (and justify) attacks upon feminists in gaming, and to scapegoat them for the soft-corruption allegedly widespread in the biz. So while I don’t doubt that the volume of hashtag use has remained high, it became less a nascent scandal and more a partisan rallying cry among people who are comfortable with that association.
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Considering Twitter is one of the only places that hasn’t been mass-deleting comments and threads about gamergate, is it any wonder that there would be a lot of newly-created twitter accounts? People are angry. They’re especially angry that the issue keeps getting described as being about sexism when they’re talking about corruption in games journalism.
The first tweet with the hashtag #gamergate was posted by Adam Baldwin on August 27. What seems to have really blown it up though are the number of articles declaring gamers to be dead as an identity on August 28. Who thought that was a good idea?
I think what’s changed in recent days is a reporter (ok, he works for Breitbart, but he’s British and gay so he’s not a Tea Partier or anything) had a bunch of emails from a private Google Group leaked to him. The group is called GameJournoPros and it’s supposed to be “a semi-private way to connect and talk” according to its founder Kyle Orland of Ars Technica. Here’s the first Breitbart article covering it (warning autoplay video):
Here’s Kyle Orland’s apology post (reading between the lines I’m getting the impression someone higher up at Ars Technica was really not happy about that mailing list):
Here’s another Breitbart article talking about who’s on the mailing list (with more autoplay video):
I don’t think it was really. I think people had at least a general idea that advertisers and publishers influence gaming press in an unhealthy way. That’s been going on since gaming press was a thing. There’s a difference though between a big publisher throwing some money at Gamespot for favourable reviews and the sites playing favourites with indie projects.
I won’t even pretend to understand 4chan users, but a group of them raised a bunch of money for that Fine Young Capitalists Indiegogo campaign. That group seems to be pretty clearly feminists. Some 4chan users might be doing it for the lulz, but I think it’s more about being ignored.
If you want to talk about attacks, the guy who wrote those Breitbart articles got a bunch of toilet paper delivered to his house last week (3-ply with aloe, I guess for soothing butthurt). Then on Saturday he got this in the mail:
This is the softest sell at a steaming pile of bullshit that I’ve seen so far. I don’t know whether to congratulate you or waste my time explaining how you’re using derailing tactics.
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You brought up the topic. I’ve just been paying attention to what complaints people have had in regards to gamergate. Ignoring those complaints and dismissing the story as just something from 4chan is why it’s still being talked about so much.
