Congressional Democrats have so little faith in Trump's leadership that they've awarded him the power to conduct limitless, warrantless mass surveillance of Americans


#1

Originally published at: https://boingboing.net/2018/01/14/primary-those-fuckers.html


#2

Another phase in a process that was started with Reagan. You people have fought it every step of the way. I hope things turn around.


#3

Reagan? LOL. Try J. Edgar Hoover.


#4

Nah, THIS process was Billy C and his transformation of the democratic party into the republican party.


#5

Why not both?

Reagan’s executive order granting greater leeway to intelligence agencies was used in Clinton’s funding of Echelon, leading to a variety of programs under Bush, most of which were continued and expanded by Obama.

I agree with the article: Republicans are worse, but never forget that Democrats also average a negative score on the good-evil alignment chart. For example, Ron Wyden is great on policies related to internet, intellectual property, and information gathering, but he torpedoed Medicare For All on behalf of the insurance lobby.


#6

They didn’t give Trump these powers, they gave them to themselves. The Democrats fully expect their next neoliberal centrist candidate will convince voters to vote against the Trumpian Shitshow and restore them to their rightful position. This just saves them the effort of legislating the powers they super promise to only use against the bad guys, this time, honestly guys.


#7

So, is that why Trump attacked its passage? Oh, who am I kidding, someone he was watching on TV was against its passage.

Who knew that one of the only people who’d be on our side on this would end up being Rand Paul?


#8

Fucking quislings.


#9

We can’t change things! Republicans will call us weak on terror! This way, everybody will forget before November, and the keys to the NSA won’t be handed over to Trump’s Russian consultants, and we’ll get the blue wave we’ve been promised!


#10

True. Although admittedly I would even take Republican Lawful Evil over the Chaotic Neutral (I don’t think he has consistent enough preferences to be Chaotic Evil) we have now.


#11

This framing, that 702 is “Limitless, Warantless, Mass Surveillance on Americans” is flat-out false.

To begin with, 702, unlike some UK surveillance authorities, does not allow bulk surveillance. Yes, the target list is >100k at this point, but these are all actual targets. And this is limited.

702 does NOT allow targeting of Americans anywhere in the world, and doesn’t allow targeting foreigners in the US.

The controversial part is “incidental collection”.

If someone in the US talks to someone under NSA surveillance, of course that’s going to be recorded. Just like if you call a mob boss who’s being wiretapped, you aren’t the target but you will be collected.

So if that collected information ends up in a database the FBI has access to, can the FBI search the already legally collected information for other purposes? I don’t know what the good answer is to this, but this was an area of subtle debate, hurt greatly by those who just go “OMG BULK EVIL TARGETING AMERICANS”.


#12

Because the government doesn’t just “give up power”.


#13

Let’s hear it for the “resistance” folks!
Once a rights killing oligarch allways a rights killing oligarch.


#14

The main problem with this bulk collection of data is it can be used later to quash dissent or target groups the government doesn’t like. Instead of having to get a warrant and do work they already have something on everyone.


#15

It’s difficult to remember this in these times of the blatantly evil GOP and their tiny-handed figurehead but alas, democrats are politicians too. At the pinnacle of every politician’s pyramid of loyalty you will find a picture of themselves.

If we were being brutally honest and the Democrats were in power how many of us would be willing to overlook the transgressions of Democrats in Congress and the white house?

The difference I see is that democrats build the social safety net while feathering their nests whereas the republicans tear it down with their idiotic trickle down economic theories.

I wish I could think of some circumstance that would raise public awareness enough to pressure congress into restricting these powers but I’ve got nothing. I cant tell you how many conversations I’ve had where I try to explain why unrestricted government surveillance is bad and been met with the “…well if you’ve got nothing to hide…” response.


#17

Hoover organised the Palmer Raids.


#19

this. very much this. i’d argue over the rest of your framing statements but this is 100% the reason for the vote.


#20

Precisually.


#21

That is, rather myopic, I’d say.


#22

“Not all Democrats…”

One-hundred-nineteen voted against it. That’s nearly two-thirds, so your grudging “Not all Democrats” is fundamentally dishonest. As is your headline.

I expect that clumsy propaganda style from Glenn Greenwald: you can do better.