In Ann’s case, no one will beat or kill her for being a hypocrite, though.
Okay, now I’m really out; this thread is a clusterfuck just waiting to happen.
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Let’s put Boing Boing into the frame, too, if we’re going to be talking about vulnerable groups and hypocrisy. We know that there is a huge amount of vitriol against women and muslims bubbling over the internet, and that it’s very easy to channel that into an unmanageable barrage by shaming someone. Is Boing Boing responsible for that barrage if they paint a target on someone’s back? Say I’m a woman and/or a muslim watching this play out. Will I feel more secure because someone is being dragged mercilessly for a little hypocrisy, or will I maybe feel like my actions, too, are under a microscope and I’m a valid target if I step a little out of line?
Not sure one beer and getting photographed by a bystander qualifies as “flaming” hypocrisy unless you’re making some strong assumptions.
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Hey, I hope that doesn’t happen here either! No one is asking for that.
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Is it a bottle of Stella Artois? I can´t blame her…
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Then what about those Farsi tweets posted in the article. Click on the hashtag, plenty of Farsi speakers are debating this too, and re-posting those critical cartoons. I believe that renders moot all your hand-wringing about how it’s not our place to judge since it’s not our culture. And as for propaganda and misinformation, perhaps she could use that as her excuse next time: “That wasn’t me! Photoshop, photoshop! Western plot!”
(Autotranslate) "This is not a discussion of why #آزاده_نامداری this discussion is that you don't have the right veil people you persuade yourself to something ُ observe do not and you don't believe"بحث این نیست که چرا #آزاده_نامداری حجاب نداره بحث این که حق نداری مردم ُ به چیزی ترغیب کنی که خودت رعایت نمیکنی و بهش اعتقاد نداری
— SiSiL (@sisil4030) July 24, 2017
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True.
Does that mean we can never criticize those and/or other topics because some people have a “kill 'em all” or similar mentality? I mean, really, you can say that about just about anyone and anything, where people take it too far.
I haven’t read every single post, but I think most have been measured and specific, not all encompassing and mindless such as “Muslims bad” or “women bad”.
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The existence of criticism in Farsi and in Iran, and the realities of oppression in Iran doesn’t mean that the US doesn’t engage in propaganda aimed at Iran on a regular basis. Maybe I am hand-wringing, but we should recognize that we might be on the brink of a serious regional war, led by our Saudi allies and hence perhaps it does us well to be a wee bit critical of stories about Iran as the "most evil place in the world"™. Iran can be an oppressive country and be the target of American propaganda campaigns.
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In case someone is interested that looks like a bottle of Feldsschlossen Original which has about 4.8% of alcohol.
It is also a quite crappy beer.
There is an alcoholfrei version but it can be recognized by distinctive golden yellow sticker.
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Well. If it is a cheap beer. She will be punished with a divine hangover…
Honestly, I’m not worried about the responses this article will provoke on Boing Boing — the worst we’ll get from this crowd are some good memes. And some really terrible memes. I’m worried about harrassment through other online channels and the prominent platform Boing Boing is giving.
I don’t think that just because someone is vulnerable to online harrassment doesn’t mean we can’t criticize them online. When we do, we are responsible for the steps we take to either promote or discourage abuse, knowing that it is rampant and requires little excuse.
While I was living there I avoided that crap like a plague… Much better brews to be had in that place.
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So is boingboing engaging in propaganda here, or the BBC? If this is propaganda, does that mean it’s not true?
Criticism of religious hypocrisy is not necessarily painting Iran as “the most evil place in the world”, that’s hyperbole. True, those who already hate Iran can use it to their advantage, but ignoring the story won’t change their minds either.
At best you’re saying the West should just shut our mouths about anything taking place in the Middle East. That may very well be valid, but don’t count on it ever happening.
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I don’t believe anyone here is encouraging abuse. That usually doesn’t last very long with dragons roaming these parts.
Not necessarily. Propaganda isn’t just lies (though it can be), it’s also about flattening and spinning the truth in ways that bends it to a particular conclusion.
The BBC isn’t purely objective, either, BTW. No news outlet is entirely objective, they are shaped either by national or corporate ideology, depending on the funding source.
I’d much prefer that we stop invading their countries and then pretending like they’re a bunch of backwards savages, actually. At the very least, we should not ignore the sins of our allies while calling out another for the exact same reasons. We should stop expecting all forms of government to look just like ours and actually support the values we purport to believe in.
We can’t undo the past, we can’t NOT have overthrown Mossadeq in 1953… we can stop pretending like we didn’t do it and that we’re not partly responsible for the mess in the region right now or that we’re not massive hypocrites for over and again support oppression when it suits our needs and eagerly lapping up stories that seem to confirm the actions of our government now and in the past. Right now I think that the Saudis are a bigger threat to regional stability. Their hard on to destroy Iran is only going to lead to ruin for all involved. But that doesn’t mean that the current Iranian regime is innocent.
Do you think I’m lying?
Fair enough.
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You recognize that there is a meaningful difference between criticizing someone for being out in public without a hijab, and criticizing propagandist for backward theocrats for being a hypocrite and partaking of things that she would deny to others, right?
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I don’t think pointing out the endless shades of grey in reality is dishonest.
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It’s also the exact opposite of what you have been doing…
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And now you’re getting further from my point. I’m specifically pointing out that you are presenting a false dilemma between “opposing” the regime and being an active participant in the propaganda. There absolutely no evidence outside your preconceptions that these are, in fact, the only two options available to her, and such a false dilemma only serves to distort the argument and provide you with an easy out.
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