Those old timers make up the majority of cops. Civilization deserves better.
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how can you convince the “would be good cops” to join the police after such stories?
TBH i gave up hope long ago.
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Who would want to?
Federal politicians who want to escalate the drug war?
Local politicians who want to get rid of the poor people?
Local politicians who want to increase fines and foreitures revenue?
Established bad cops?
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As long as the cop half of the equation has no interest in actually working on their problems, Black Lives Matter is going to fight a permanent uphill battle. The police won’t get better as long as they don’t think there’s a problem with how they behave. And pretty much every cop I’ve talked to is lightning fast to shift the responsibility for anything bad or dangerous a cop does onto a civilian. As long as cops are completely unwilling to take responsibility for the people they kill and the lives they ruin, there can be no progress without destroying the whole system and rebuilding it.
Reform requires participation on both sides, and the cop side hasn’t shown really any indication of wanting to do better.
Perhaps it’s time to scrap the whole thing for our own safety.
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And this is why I don’t trust the cops any more.
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The police institution is structured to be murderous. The constituent individuals run the gamut from benign to sociopathic, but the architecture of power ensures that murder is always the result. When cops kill civilians, it’s not an accident. It’s the police institution operating exactly as it’s designed to.
Abolish the police. Why is that even controversial, at this point?
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Because it’s not a real answer to the problem. We need police. Remember that there are police forces in other countries doing a fine job of community policing.
I say federalize them. The police unions will scream but anyone can see they’re bad actors and they deserve to be ousted from the conversation.
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But wouldn’t result in having a TSA like group in every city? Standing around, not doing anything, breaking the law and getting away with it.
Not much of a change actually.
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More like the TSA with guns.
On meth.
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I don’t think it has to mean that, but yes there is the risk if we keep doing things as badly as we have. All of this must come as part of a newfound national inability to accept the bullshit that is normal now.
Look to Canada’s RCMP. I’ve seen worse models.
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As long as you keep the meth and the Mounties in separate drawers.
But seriously. They aren’t the actual worst, but the alpha-blizzard of armed Federal police agencies we already have; BATF, DEA, CBP, SS, FBI, ICE, GSA and on and on, aren’t noted for their aversion to the use of lethal force.
Sure, the IRS, Postal Inspectors and Park Rangers don’t get to do as many pre-dawn forced entries as the others --or any city-county SWAT-ed up Strike Team Task Force-- but better discipline only works if the policy being enforced is sane.
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I agree, all of that needs work.
I’m a fireworks buff and I like guns too, so the BATFE are of interest to me. I’ve quit flying altogether because of the TSA.
My hope is that when the inevitable breaking point comes, we decide to settle this thing and reorganize peacefully instead of going all “Tale of 50 Cities.”
(ETA - I had a few idle chats with BATFE agents at a pyro convention, as aerial bombs exploded in the sky about a quarter mile downrange from our lecture tent. What they wanted me and the other pyros there to hear (and they were good at staying on point!) is that they didn’t want to make us enemies because their best tips come from us. They told us to please keep blowing things up legally, and when the crazies come around let them know. It seemed very even-handed to me.)
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I’ve got good aim with various firearms, I can brew beer, fix engines, grow gardens, and organize information. But I don’t want anything to do with rebooting America as that would be nothing more than a long retelling of a rather scary Cormac McCarthy story where the helpful people are likely to be murdered first.
EDIT: I’m not saying we should simply ‘grin and bear it’, because that would be silly. How we get the LEO unions and FOP’ together with the citizens to make workable policy is, unfortunately, not one of the things I’m good at figuring out.
EDIT2: [quote=“SlyBevel, post:32, topic:85355”]
What they wanted me and the other pyros there to hear…
[/quote]
IF we’ve gotta do the reboot thing, I wanna have you on my side 
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I think nobody is, because the two parties are ideologically at odds with working together, and with outside parties who might change things they like.
You know it. 
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I know you’re being sarcastic, but this incident actually supports that NRA talking point very strongly.
Two men, both armed with guns, nobody hurt, nobody in real danger.
Then two murderers show up. With the same kind of weapons. Literally the same weapons as the man who didn’t kill anyone. The difference was people.
I do not mean to mount a defense of the NRA soundbite you quoted - I am not pretending it applies to every situation. But this is one where it truly does. The nasty bad evil guns were already present and nobody died until the nasty bad evil people showed up.
Please don’t. Please, please, please don’t replace police with soldiers called police.
At least in the current system the police are the bad apples of the local community, and not an occupying force imposed from outside.
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Again, that’s not what I said. Look at how the Canadians do it.
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I don’t think the issue is with who commands the cops. I think the issue is both systemic to a degree, but also our complex structure and mix of various cultures, classes, and social groups.
Federally controlled cops could and probably would have similar official policies in place that they do now.
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Normally the police union would argue a cop shouldn’t be fired for shooting an entire roomful of unarmed harmless people and would fight for a decade if necessary to get him reinstated if he were.
But here, he made other cops look bad, so adios sucker.
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There are lot cops out there who are frustrated and who are upset. We
are definitely doing our part to make sure that we weed out those who
are good apples and make sure that they are not serving in our Police
Department.
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We need community safety, we don’t need police. If we want to take a global perspective, let’s also remember that there are plenty of communities which keep the peace without the involvement of armed and legally privileged “professionals”.
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