So, to say Obama is progress is saying that he’s the first black person that is qualified to be president. That’s not black progress. That’s white progress. There’s been black people qualified to be president for hundreds of years. If you saw Tina Turner and Ike having a lovely breakfast over there, would you say their relationship’s improved? Some people would. But a smart person would go, “Oh, he stopped punching her in the face.” It’s not up to her. Ike and Tina Turner’s relationship has nothing to do with Tina Turner. Nothing. It just doesn’t. The question is, you know, my kids are smart, educated, beautiful, polite children. There have been smart, educated, beautiful, polite black children for hundreds of years. The advantage that my children have is that my children are encountering the nicest white people that America has ever produced. Let’s hope America keeps producing nicer white people.
Ya know, it’s funny the different rules kids had for that game. When I was a kid, whoever was “jinxed” simply couldn’t talk until the “jinxer” said their name.
What are you, some kind of commie? Unfairness is just natural, we know because the rich tell us that as they hoard their wealth… there will always be someone oppressing someone else, and there is NOTHING we can do about it!!! /s
Yet religious people are some of the most heinous genocidal maniacs of them all. Because while you may feel your worth comes from God, those fools who do not believe as you do have lives which are worthless. (Its been done so damn often I don’t even know where to start)
Religion is a poor source for moral thinking and valuating human life.
Oh, absolutely! There are all kinds of bad religion (and many bad expressions of good religion) which fall prey to exactly the same problem. But the point I was making remains. If you judge human value according to some attribute (including religious commitment) you will always end up regarding the people who don’t possess much of that attribute as disposable.
If you consider all human worth from God, then there will always be people who will be considered damned by God. Which are always people who don’t follow the same religious beliefs as yourself.
Human life has value because it is human life. No God is necessary. Only the bare minimum of empathy and not being a sociopath.
Hmmm, not always at all. There are all kinds of different religious beliefs. But it doesn’t follow that believing people will be judged by God would make you hate them. It didn’t make Jesus hate people.
Okay, now I really appreciate you having a go at this. I thought you were just going to play ad hominem (or ad ecclesiam) polemics but this is a positive argument. Thank you.
But I’m not sure what you mean. You seem to say human life is valuable just cos it’s human and then you talk about empathy.
If it’s the first, well … okay! I don’t mind if you want to leave it at that, though I’m surprised you find it satisfying. I’ll tell my anti-abortion friends to expect your offer of help saving those little human lives.
But what about empathy? Empathy is a feeling. Are you saying people have value because – who? you? the majority? – feel empathetic towards them? That’s a pretty shaky foundation for human rights isn’t it?
History has proven you wrong all the time. There is no religion on earth whose tenets involve treating those outside it in the same manner as you do from your own group. What Jesus said and what Christians have done since inception of the religion have never been the same thing.
No it isn’t. You are making a nonsense claim that religious belief forms the basis for how we value each other. When clearly it has never been the case. If anything belief that God provides worth to people has also been used to believe God deems others worthless. As seen in EVERY RELIGION ON THE PLANET. Nobody has been able to avoid sectarian animosity without removing sectarian power first.
Because it does and because empathy is the primary way such feelings are formed. We empathize enough to know people other than ourselves don’t like being treated badly, just as we ourselves don’t.
The Anti-abortion position is not about concern for life of any type. It is about exerting control over others. To treat women as property of the state. They consider the woman to be of no importance or value. At no point do they actually care about lives past gestation and the position itself is deeply hostile to people (those born). Religion is very good for furthering that irrational position. That women are nothing more than property and a fetus is somehow sacred.
Empathy is understanding the feelings of others. How we connect to them.
Nope. I am saying that we have value because we exist as people. No supernatural appeal required. We understand all people have value because we believe we have value and are not socipaths. People incapable of empathy.
Not at all. It is the basis of humanism. All people have value because they are people. It is also utilitarian. Society functions best when people value the lives of their fellow people.
Well we can agree on that. Pleased you think Jesus is okay.
Never? No religious person or group (Jesus excluded, apparently) has ever been moved to value other people because of their religious belief? I’m astounded by your universal knowledge of history and other people’s minds and motivations! But clearly I can’t contend against such godlike omniscience. I will tip my hat and leave it there.
