That actually goes way way back with Disney. I went looking for examples from Jungle Book and Robin Hood, which is the most obvious and well known place where Disney reused models and animations and found this:
Another thing that goes way back is the rote similarity of the female characters. Disney’s had some very strict guidelines for character design going back to its beginnings. To the point where those guidelines are actual still taught and studied in animation fields. Most of the 2-D “princesses” seem to have had slightly more variation in regards to facial features, though that seems more tied to a long standing tradition from Disney towards using aspects of a voice actors face in the animated design for the character.
If I had to guess I’d say the greater similarity since Pixar has more to do with pushing a Pixar “house style” similar to the old Disney guidelines but less well thought out and lacking the old 2D animators traditions, tricks and shortcuts.
No they weren’t. I love how people who have no idea what they’re talking about start bringing up Japan and the dreaded “Anime” like it’s some sort of disease. “Beautiful” female characters have always looked similar in cartoons and comics going way back when American animators were still using derogatory words towards Japanese animators.
What looks, accents, and mannerisms does a “Latina lady” have in your view?
In the context if this film, how do you wish the actress had acted? What accent? What sort of “mannerisms”? Be specific, please.
From what I know about the film, the character appears to be an American kid played by a Hispanic-American young actress.
The character’s name is “Honey Lemon”, for Pete’s sake, and she is based off a blond cartoon character! And from what I know of the comic the movie is based on, the character is originally from … Japan.
Wikepeida has this to say about the movie:
Protagonist Hiro Hamada is a 14-year-old robotics genius who lives in the futuristic (fictional) city of San Fransokyo and spends his time participating in illegal robot fights.
And for Pete’s sake, it’s a cartoon based in a fictional city in the future!
Should all Hispanic-American actresses (and I presume actors) be pigeonholed into playing only those types of characters that match what you think a “Latina lady” (or guy) should act like? What sort of actress, in your mind, should have played this particular character as is? Since obviously you don’t think a Hispanic-American actress playing a cartoon character based in a fictional city in the future is appropriate.
I’m curious why you didn’t even bother to do some research on the film before sharing your views on this topic. I don’t even think you paid attention to the movie when you watched it, actually.
I notice that they’ve carefully picked-and-chosen the Disney characters that match the ‘house style’ that Disney’s been using for the past few years, leaving out characters that don’t fit their extremely silly ‘conspiracy theory’.
Funny, I’m not seeing these as fitting that style.
I think it’s pretty funny that this meme (which I’ve seen pop up on Facebook a half dozen times) uses Disney as its target when Dreamworks, Sony, etc. are all using the template of “fairly attractive, not ultra-cartoonishly-deformed female” for their female characters. And I’m not really seeing an issue with that. Should they be caricatures instead?
I mean, even a non Disney animated film like The Book of Life, lauded for its unique art direction and creator-driven art style, uses this for its main female character. Doe eyes, button nose, etc. They aren’t pushing dolls or marketing around this, it’s just the template for an “attractive female”.
Well, from Cinderella on, the old Disney Princesses all sort of looked like Helene Stanley, the body model with some facial characteristics as well, not a bad thing, right through to Rapunzel, who retains a smidgin of that look. After that, they start looking to me like puppets, neotanous and somewhat creepy, with curious prognathous aspects and moving about as realistically as a stick of wood. There are many more “mug shot” looks, I think, straight-on or straight-sideways - they are certainly stiffer. I’m not too fond of the wide bridge between eyes, they start looking either cross-eyed, or horsey, like they’d have to turn their strangely-round heads from side to side.
The comment I was replying to wasn’t taking part in cultural criticism, or at least not intelligent or well thought out cultural criticism, I assure you. Besides, I never stated or even implied the straw man you seem to be vaguely arguing against
In fact… maybe you should read my comment again. I was actually sort of implying that the person I was replying to was expecting something stereotypical, like the picture you shared (because he later found out the character was played by a Hispanic-American). Which is why I asked what he expected the character to look and act like (once he realized the character was being played by a Hispanic-American). Do keep up.
But thanks, I guess, for sharing an appropriate picture, but I already made the point you are trying to imply I was actually arguing against.
This is a conversation about animated characters in Disney cartoons. When I’m talking about Disney cartoons, it’s sort of implied that I’m talking about animated cartoon females, not the wide variety of actual human beings in the world.
I think the point is that in Big Hero 6 we’re talking about an invented world with a mash-up of real world cultures. The entire story takes place in one imagined city, which is a hybrid of San Franciso and Tokyo. This is not just a fictional story, it’s a fictional story set in an alternate reality which by necessity probably has it’s own alternate history, so character’s backgrounds and cultures don’t have to mesh with the real world.
And more than that, the person I originally replied to seemed to be sort of confused about a Hispanic-American young actress playing a blonde cartoon character (set in the future, no less, in a very fictionalized world, as you mention), and that they expected her to act more like a “Latina lady” (whatever they think that means…).
You’re arguing against what somebody’s daughter told her.
You want to pick a fight with a 12-year-old girl, go ahead.
@ChickieD - If I am mischaracterizing anything you said, please let me know to correct, apologize, delete, or whatever.
Why do cartoons (Not just Disney - The Book of Life was from a different studio) have to have a limited template? Why is that the cartoon “attractive female”?
That’s the point of the article.
Would you feel comfortable saying “I’m talking about animated cartoon Japanese who all have big buck teeth and slanted squinty eyeglass-covered-eyes, not the wide variety of actual Japanese human beings in the world. That’s just the cartoon template” ?
Why for gender, and not a race?
Yes, it’s art, and there’s stylization and shorthand shortcuts - but when you can superimpose half-a-dozen heroines from half-a-dozen recent blockbusters and they are identical… there’s a problem.
Um, seriously? His/her daughter isn’t speaking right now. THEY are speaking. And no, they aren’t only quoting their daughter. They ACTUALLY stated that once their daughter told them the character was played by a Hispanic-American young lady (and that seems to be all she told them), they were surprised she (the actress) didn’t “act like” a “Latina lady”.
It was ACTUALLY @ChickieD who stated that they were surprised the Hispanic-Amer can actress didn’t play the character more like a “Latina lady”, after was they were told by their daughter, which was simply that the actress playing her was Hispanic-American.
You’re being completely dishonest and ridiculous with this comment all because you don’t want to admit you read my comment incorrectly and made incorrect assumptions. They were giving their own opinion on the film’s performance based on what they were told by their daughter. The comment I was replying to was actually what ChickieD was stating. I was replying to ChickeiD’s actual opinion on how they expected the character to have acted, once they found out the actress’s ethnicity.
ChickieD actually states "But I saw the movie and it was completely news to me that she was Hispanic…
No need to screen capture the conversation that’s only a few comments upthread, and which I remember very clearly.
Man, you’re zero for two on this reading comprehension today. Is it because it’s me you’re replying to and just feel the need to be a contrary against all logic?
It’s okay to admit you were wrong! It’s not a bad thing to do. I’d actually think better of you for it.
I’m sorry – I know that sarcasm doesn’t translate well in text. I’ll try again.
By putting “attractive female” in quotes, I meant to indicate that I don’t actually agree with the stereotyping or shortcut of using a template like this, and most certainly don’t find this sort of female template sexy or attractive, myself.
But there’s a big difference between implying that I’m okay with racism (I mean, seriously, what the hell?) and saying that I’m okay with animation studios using a house style from picture to picture. They’ve been doing it for male AND female characters (and horses, bunnies, deer, frogs, whatever) for almost a hundred years now. Pick any decade, choose all the female (or male) characters from that decade, and I bet they’ll look extremely similar.
My coloring is similar, and I was born in Latin America. I have the lightest hair of my cohort of first cousins, but I do not have the palest skin. No one ever assumes I’m latina, unless I say my full name.
This matches my life experience. I am a white hispanic person, and my way of interacting with the world more closely matches the country I’ve been educated in than the one I was born in.
I tend to use “he” by force of bad schooling habits and I try to catch them but sometimes I miss them. I actually don’t know their gender so I try to stick with “they” but sometimes I forget.
ChickieD actually states "But I saw the movie and it was completely news to me that she was Hispanic… This is a direct quote.
I am not actually arguing about what the daughter stated, because she only stated a fact, TO her parent, and then her parent shared THEIR (the parent’s) opinion which was based on the fact that the daughter relayed to them.
I was directly replying to ChickieD’s stated opinion about how they were surprised the character didn’t act more like a “Latina lady” once they found out that the actress playing her was Hispanic-American. It’s really. fucking. simple, but you refuse to see it because you just want to be right so badly.
That was not clear at all to me. In retrospect – I still can’t see it in the original.
However, African American, Japanese, Chinese, etc. characters in cartoons were also quite similar until people complained. Just because it is a house style is no excuse.
I actually don’t know their gender so I try to stick with “they” but sometimes I forget.