Don't give up straws. Get stainless steel ones instead

Touché. I suppose I was assuming the writer was not so affected, but of course I have no basis to make that assumption. I apologize.

No, that’s a fail for obvious reasons – you can’t bring those with you. Any fool can see you can bring a straw with you, and easily too.

Thank you for providing a perfect, and correct, analogy. In point of fact, I have lived this scenario, let me explain. A few years ago I attended an international conference in Beijing. Many of the attendees were Westerners. Of those, some chose never to venture outside the hotel for their meals, and they were supplied with forks and knives at the hotel restaurants, which catered to international guests. Some of us did choose to eat at local establishments though. I hope it won’t surprise you that a local restaurant in Beijing is unlikely to offer Western-style silverware as a matter of course, some places had a few settings, but in some the choice was chopsticks or nothing. Of people venturing to local restaurants, some were adept with chopsticks. Of the remainder, some did bring their own silverware. And finally, some didn’t bring silverware, weren’t adept with chopsticks, and made a fuss when the restaurant wasn’t able to supply them with Western silverware. I witnessed this on a couple of occasions.

Would you say the restaurant was out of line for not accommodating their needs?

Oh, and since you were making guesses as to my mental state – no, I did not find it annoying that restaurants in Beijing supply only chopsticks.

I’m sure you’re right, more’s the pity. But of course I’m not in favor of that kind of policing so if you’re trying to attribute that position to me, you’re in error.

By the way, I do acknowledge that there’s a legitimate gripe, having to do with the fact that in the past (and really, still, in most areas) straws were so ubiquitous as to be expected, and now we’re in a transition to a time when maybe that won’t be so. I’m sure the first time someone who has a physical need for one encounters a situation where it was reasonable in the past to assume a straw would be provided, and now it’s not, that would suck (damn, these puns are literally writing themselves, I only caught that one on proofreading). But I expect that there wouldn’t often be a second time. Is there some reason to believe that this problem wouldn’t self-correct, and pretty quickly too? (To go back to the Beijing restaurant analogy, I have no quarrel with the attendees who were brought up short on their first ever visit to a local restaurant. I do have a problem with those who did so repeatedly, though.)

My word. I stand (semi-) corrected. I say “semi” because the quote is masterfully vague as befits a politician. I wouldn’t really expect anything to come of it, then again sometimes it seems like the primary raison d’être of the UK is to provide someone who can be even sillier than the USA.

Yes, and see reply above. Their point was at least made in the spirit of conversation and not point-scoring, though.

My point exactly!

As regards momentary lapses, all I can say is that in years of using them, I’ve never had this problem. I’m not freakishly focused, either. We don’t worry about using, say, porcelain mugs, which also touch our teeth, so I’m not sure why we’d worry about hard straws unduly.

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You, Sir or Madam, are a jewel, and should be praised more often for your wit. Kudos!

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I actually have a little case (like a toothbrush case almost) that I keep “disposable” plastic straws in. I use them for singing exercises. Eventually they wear out and have to be chucked but I get a few months out of each.

I could hypothetically switch to a non-disposable but none of them ever seem to post their internal diameter which is important to me since a slight difference in size is a significant difference in airflow.

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This American hasn’t used a straw more than a handful of times in over a decade. I’ve really only seen them used in fast food places for soft drinks. I suppose that I must have some 3+ straw-a-day counterpart somewhere out there, drinking their morning coffee with a straw, drinking from a water fountain with a straw, sipping their evening wine with a straw…

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Given that the objections in this basis I’ve seen have come from inside the disabled community , your analogy doesn’t hold up. This is an already marginalized group telling up what they need and your response is basically “suck it up, buttercup”.

You’re entitled to your opinion, but don’t be surprised the next time someone is light on sympathy towards you.

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Like with plastic shopping bags, this is something where I really don’t know if I should just keep my mouth shut.

There’s no question that it is more sustainable to simply not use plastics. If you carry shopping in your arms and drink directly from cups, good.

If you use steel straws, there is a whole complex discussion about whether that is an improvement. Producing and working stainless steel takes a lot of energy; washing straws uses a lot of both energy and water, the impact of which depends on where you live; plastic straws are typically recycled or end up in landfill, not in the ocean.

The short answer is that no one is certain what (if any) environmental benefits could be gained from you using stainless steel straws.

Either way, what is certain is that plastic straws and shopping bags are a rounding error in the grand scheme of things (whether you’re talking about greenhouse emissions or waste management). There is a real danger that, if people think that by using cotton shopping bags and metal straws they’ve “done their part”, this sort of initiative could severely backfire.

I would say, by all means use steel straws to promote mindfulness in yourself and others; but don’t imagine that this in itself will achieve anything (and it might even be fractionally worse).

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Well, no, this is people on the internet claiming to be repeating statements from said group. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a statement directly attributed to such a person. I mean, I haven’t made an exhaustive search, I don’t deny the possibility, but I also am not inclined to accept your interpretation as gospel without support.

Are you a member of the (relevantly affected) disabled community? If so, please, educate me about why bringing a straw with you isn’t a reasonable option. If you aren’t personally affected but have actual citations to share, please do. If neither applies, thank you for your input, and as they say:

https://twitter.com/rosecolored_boi/status/1127360929820237824

https://twitter.com/rosecolored_boi/status/1127361265477799936

https://twitter.com/rosecolored_boi/status/1127362234731118592

https://twitter.com/MrsRainbowZebra/status/1127081041536147456

Several people cited in this article

And finally, (because sending other people to look for something you could Google is a bad-faith arguing technique, so I do not feel any need to be more exhaustive and accomodating than I have been):

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If you say so. (The googling is the easy part, the sorting what from chaff is the hard part, and you could have said “no thanks” if you wanted.) Thanks for the links, I’ll take a look in the a.m…

Edited to add: really, “citation needed” is not the same as “do my work for me”. I’ll do you the courtesy of not calling the accusation a bad-faith arguing technique, but you might think on it.

Yet another nightmare scenario:
Strawban goes into effect. Exception is made for people with relevant disabilities. Straws now are classed as a medical device and really do cost $50 a box.

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You were the one making the extraordinary claim. You were the one saying that no one in the disability community was talking about this and it was all abled people handwringing about them.

It really wasn’t me who needed to provide the evidence.

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This was my thought exactly (having bought thin walled stainless tubing before).

Here’s a deal! If you stop by my place, I’ll cut off a section of tubing to your preferred length, and even round and burnish the ends for you! You can be the king/queen/whatever of your preferred drinking establishment with a 2 foot straw if you so choose! (and if I had a bending machine, I could even make profane bendy straws…)

I’ve had those waxed paper things here in Ontario. Harvey’s is using them. Manages a large pop and a refill. Was ready for the compost bin.

I think we (Ontario or Canada?) are going all plastic utensil ban in a few years. Maybe Dougie will get us a pass.

Yeah, Arctic sea ice has been at or near record low for years, but it’s not “News”.

Yah, just pop up the flap on the throwaway plastic lid and guzzle away. :innocent:

We need a boring technical scientific “life cycle analysis” that nobody will pay any attention to.

Re: I Eat Ass

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No, they’re not the single biggest impact, but I don’t think we ought to be addressing the single biggest anyway, if that means to the exclusion of the hundreds of other impacts. We need to deal with all of them, right down to the tiniest contributors of plastic waste. It’s a real mistake to think that “if we fix this one thing, everything will be fine; we can forget about everything else”.

I’ve encountered the same argument in road safety: speed allegedly isn’t the single biggest cause of accidents, so money spent on speed cameras is wasted. No. We need to deal with speed, poor maintenance, bad driving practice, and dozens of other factors, as a suite of measures, all at the same time.

We need a total change in lifestyles. If we can use straws to change attitudes generally, those attitudes can be leveraged towards the bigger issues, so straws might have an impact beyond the absolute amount of plastic in them.

I take bobtato’s point that:

But that’s something else to address, not a reason to ignore even the ‘rounding errors’.

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I’m a full member of DPAC. Does that count?

https://dpac.uk.net/

I also believe in this thing called solidarity.
United we stand, divide we fall.
We must, indeed, all hang together or, most assuredly, we shall all hang separately.

ETA: If anyone has a disability that is affected by a straw ban and wants to continue this argument instead of me, please do.

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Is that… actually a thing that happen to you?