Conservative heads explode, Vegan ears perk up! Cognitive dissonance reigns supreme. Hopefully this turd is flushed.
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Q: How does it taste?
A: Depends on the people.
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I voted here in Virginia on 9/24. That’s how I found out I’d been re-districted. I used to be in Jennifer Wexton’s 10th district, but now I’m in Gerry Connolly’s 11th. Both are capable, responsive Dems, but Wexton has an uphill battle this time around and I wish I’d been able to cast a vote for her again.
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Beans are expensive?
There’s a reason beans and pulses are staple foods in many cultures, the only expensive ones I can think of are the processed ones pretending to be meat.
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Pasta just makes me want to eat more pasta
“filling” is not the category I’d put it in
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Who can keep track?
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I mean before he even started running in this case, but it’s hilarious that this is one of those issues that the Republicans keep trying to make people freak out about - “they want to take away your hamburgers, they’re going to get rid of red meat, they’re going to make it super expensive or difficult to buy!” (etc.) His pre-Republican-candidate self is playing right into the hands of… Republicans like his current self.
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Perhaps. But let’s solve problem X by punishing poor people in a way that won’t effect the rich would be pretty on-brand if his target base didn’t refuse to believe in problem X.
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Wait, I thought it was Democrats that were conspiring to take away everybody’s hamburgers thanks to that evil Green New Deal. But, Dr. Oz is basically campaigning on doing this very thing for ecological reasons, no less?
Right? He may be a despicable human and I sincerely hope he loses big, but I actually can’t disagree with the point he’s making here.
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Good education on food is clearly important. Legumes are plant-based protein sources that are cheap, and eggs aren’t as sustainable but a lot better than beef. You do need to learn to cook different things though.
And a lot of “meat substitutes” are definitely cheaper to produce than actual meat, as there isn’t the whole “getting an animal to grow” part in between the plants and the product. The reason they’re more expensive now is because of meat subsidies, economies of scale and market incentives.
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There’s also the massive difference in carbon footprint between even highly processed plant based foods and meats, especially beef. But yeah, learning to cook differently is crucial. And it’s entirely possible to make real change - after all, our current meat consumption is quite new, and a direct result of about a century of policy promoting cheap meat as the core of people’s diets.
Still, “solving” this through pricing is just putting even more unreasonable pressure onto poor people who already don’t have the time or knowledge to cook for themselves, who now have to learn to cook entirely new types of food. Environmentally sound, maybe, but socially abhorrent.
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In the last couple years (since Covid) it has been overall cheaper for me to buy fake meat products or tofu than to buy real meat in the store. Chicken on sale might be cheaper than fake meat, but any beef products are pretty expensive right now. Even at costco where I used to buy most of our meat products. I don’t get the really expensive fake meat (like beyond burgers).
Fake cheese is still pricey though.
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Before everyone gets too excited to judge others for what they eat and can afford to eat, maybe we should stop subsidizing oil companies to the tune of billions and hold the corporations who have murdered the climate accountable first.
I seem to have to say this is every climate change thread, but we cannot buy our way out of the problem. Individual consumer choice helps a tiny bit, the crucial big wins only come from government regulations and investment in science. Grid storage solutions, mandating (and subsidizing!) electric cars, carbon-free concrete and steel production, etc.
After all that you can start shaming poor people for eating a hot dog.
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Luckily it’s not the nanny state if the rules are unwritten and only economically enforced.
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I can’t imagine how it could happen politically, but if we’re going to have food subsidies (for, you know, making sure everyone has food), why not tie them directly to a formula for nutrient density? No lobby meddling without lab results proving you’ve made your food better. No extra subsidies for adding vitamins to crap ingredients during processing. No subsidies for crops that are going to be fed to animals or used to make fuels/plastics/chemicals, only for those humans are going to eat.
Perhaps it’s a distinction without a difference, but withdrawing subsidies does hit somewhat different* from shaming and adding penalties. Beef subsidies carry with them a lot of externalities that would become more apparent without them, including an embedded oil subsidy for all the petroleum that’s needed to keep beef operations running. Of course, the opposite would be true as well, remove oil subsidies and the price of meat products will naturally rise.
It would absolutely take some truly impressive political judo to make sure that message arrived intact, as the GOP already screams about The Left Wanting to Demasculate America by Seizing your Hamberders, and I’ve yet to meet a Democratic candidate who can play the game that well, but there has to be an incremental way forward that isn’t just overtly punishing.
*although is nearly everything is subsidized, and that is the baseline, the distinction becomes even more thin…
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The negative externality of measures like this, though, is that they always end up only punishing the poor. If meat prices doubled, all the nice upper middle class folks would grumble but keep living their lives unchanged. Meanwhile the lower income people who often have no local sources for alternative sources of protein and iron, would be in very very dire straits.
If being vegan was a genuinely straightforward and cheaper option as so many in this thread seem to think, all poor people would be already. Poor people are not stupid. They are eating the best they can with what they can afford.
If the desire is to make veganism the cheaper option by making meat more expensive, well guess what- you’ve effectively raised all food prices because now the baseline for calories and nutrition is higher. Making meat more expensive does not make fresh produce cheaper or more available. Again, all you’re doing is hurting poor people.
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Also, the market supports paying a certain amount for a meal, and even if a vegetable protein cost a lot less than a meat or seafood option, the restaurant or grocery store won’t automatically pass on that savings to you.
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