It is amazing to me how many critics of Snowden appear to be accepting “we don’t do that here because Freedom” from fricken’ Vladimir. And why not? That same speech certainly did James Clapper no harm.
And I thought that Snowden was no longer in a position to embarrass anyone.
Really? How?. Because, of course, everyone, including everyone (anyone?) in Russia, believes Putin would give and honest an accurate answer to that question? It does sound like there some naivete here. But it doesn’t sound like most if it is coming from Snowden.
I really don’t know about the average Russian. But as an American inserting my opinion (insert joke here), my assumption is that any public answer by Putin to pretty much any question is political. That is, it is made for political reasons and unrelated to the truth. I trust Putin less than Obama, and that is saying something. I trust Obama more than Putin, and that isn’t saying very much at all.
PS edited because my spelling sucks.
Yes, absolutely. That’s the point. Note Snowden’s defensive tone. He was completely successful, save for the reactions of our press.
Perhaps that is a sort of success as well, for they are revealing that they are not to be trusted.
Dude, even Marcy Wheeler is talking about Snowden being used for this. Is she a corporatist statist TV media propagandist now?
Dude, even I talked about the Kremlin attempting to use Snowden in this thread. Am I a corporatist statist TV media propagandist now?
See, your usage of out of context, inane, over-simplistic hyperbole cuts both ways, doesn’t it?
What did Marcy Wheeler say, anyway? And, please provide a link to it in context.
No, Marcy is not that. But Marcy is also not infallible. Just because she has an opinion doesn’t mean I have to agree with it. And I don’t.
“I am happy to hear you say that. Truly I am blessed to have been granted asylum in Russia, a country that now embodies the ideals of freedom
America once aspired to but has fallen from” may be how it’s roughly presented by elements of the Russian media.
Yes, and maybe Russians now think space aliens are responsible for spying and it’s entirely Snowden’s fault for asking Putin about mass surveillance. We could go on all day making shit up out of thin air in order to disparage, discredit and lessen Snowden, I suppose.
This makes Russia look like a place where speech and press are freer than in the US.
I don’t want to blow any nationalistic minds or gaskets, but is it within the realm of possibility that in certain cases the Russian public may be freer than those in the USA? Or is our wealth of corporate media that ritually lies to us with half-truths and outright falsehoods the last bastion of freedom?
When our leaders ritually lie to our faces and a complicit media parrots the talking points, is that where speech and freedom rule in the USA?
If Snowden’s revelations in the US only got a milquetoast response from the president and the corporate internet overlords, why would this much softer question cause any real change in Russia?
Speaking of parroting talking points… I also find it pathetic that the western, corporatist media are trying to say this is a softball question:
“Does Russia intercept, store or analyze, in any way, the communications of millions of individuals?”
How the hell is that a softball question? A softball question would have been “How does Russia protect their citizens from American spying?”
It was a very specific question that was actually difficult to run around. He specifically mentioned, “intercept, store or analyze, in any way”. That doesn’t offer much wiggle room for dodging. He also said “communications” as to cover everything from phone calls to emails. Once again, very little, if any, wiggle room.
And Snowden’s happy to beat this drum because it’s His Thing now.
What does that even mean?
If there is to be any fallout from this, it will be indirect and distant.
Can you support that claim with evidence and sources?
He was completely successful, save for the reactions of our press.
Considering our press is often controlled directly or by proxy by these guys, it shouldn’t be of any surprise that the jingoistic, American corporate media is trying to spin the hell out of this against Snowden.
It just goes to show how much our media has become a blatant loudspeaker for an increasingly authoritarian American government. No wonder so many Americans are deluded into thinking Snowden is our enemy.
I am cynical enough to be not that surprised about the NSA revelations. I believe Russia, China and likely much of Europe have had similar monitoring in place. It is possible that if Putin stays in power, we might never know the extent of monitoring in Russia. Until Putin falls and Snowden or his equivalent is given access similar to what he had at the NSA, it’s possible we don’t know for sure. You can choose to believe the US is a less free society than the Russian system, but I quite frankly don’t. I’m not a fan by any stretch of the imagination of corporate control over the US, and believe there’s considerable room for improvement.
You can choose to believe the US is a less free society than the Russian system
You can choose in knee-jerk haste to misrepresent my own views with insulting, over-simplistic misrepresentations, but I can also choose to call you out on it.
Nowhere have I said that blanket statement. Go back and read my posts. I’d appreciate in the future if you’d speak for yourself instead of for me especially if you’re going to choose to resort to blatant distortions and fantasy.
I know, it’s like the thought never occurred to anyone that THE ENTIRE FREE WORLD ISN’T AS FREE AS IT THINKS IT IS…
Nobody has a monopoly on freedom. Not the US, not Russia, not Denmark or Sweden or Germany or anyplace… could it be… just maybe, could it be that… corruption, bigotry and oppression are everywhere?
Shudder.
The veil is lifting, oh my freaking GOD.
The thing I like about Snowden criticisms is how often he’s wrong because of something and its opposite, like here, where he’s stupid for giving Putin what he wants and not giving him what he wants. Surely that makes the case against him twice as airtight!
Right, with a lot of Snowden detractors everything is damned if he does something or damned if he doesn’t. But, I can’t blame them but so much. The mass media (both online and TV) is really working overtime on people’s perceptions on this issue and some minds are more malleable in this regard than others. The nice thing about manufacturing consent through multiple outlets is the people you target often think they came up with their misinformed, contradictory drivel themselves that way.
Biggest surprise for me was that so many people seemed genuinely surprised, especially those in the halls of power. Other than that, only the direct attacks on private fiber and the perpetual storage were news. I assumed they would discard, or at least drastically winnow, anything over 10 years old or so as no longer relevant and cost-prohibitive to maintain. (Of course once you take a Stasi-like worldview into account then it’s no longer surprising. Maybe I should run for office - easiest way to find out what’s in your file, lol! Wonder what they have on Obama…?)
I think a lot of the suprise expressed in the halls of power is of the “shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here…” variety.
I’m cynical enough to think of it like ooze. We may beat it back and get it to look like it’s retreating, but behind that, it’s still collecting data on people, still doing its thing and hasn’t stopped, won’t ever stop… not until someone sets fire to the entire ooze. Until that day, no matter what the politicians say or the courts decide or the media portrays, they are just going to ooze around whatever we try to put up and keep on doing whatever they want until they are physically forced to stop. That’s how cynical I am about all of this.
This performance piece has nothing to do with starting a discussion of surveillance in Russia. And exceedingly little to do with Snowden, who is a lamed pawn on a chessboard.
This has everything to do with Vladimir V. Putin flexing his muscles, tweeking the US’ nose, reminding them that, in addition to being able to being able to do whatever he wants in Crimea and Ukraine: I have Edward Snowden, I have Edward Snowden. And, see how effortlessly I can get him to perform for me?
Snowden is an outsider in Russia. He has no access to the actual surveillance situation there, nor can he “reveal” anything. All he can do is dutifully ask the right questions, to which the patient and helpful Putin will respond with all the right (and unverifiable) answers. Joe Stalin couldn’t have staged it any better. A perfect propaganda play.
“Snowden is an outsider in Russia. He has no access to the actual surveillance situation there, nor can he “reveal” anything”
Yes. It begs the question then: why are the David Frums of our newsmedia correct in going on (at length) about how this one slip up on Snowden’s part “proves” he was a RusskieStoogeDoubleAgent all along. See http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/04/the-lies-edward-snowden-tells/360893/.
The answer is obvious; they are not. It took Snowden – an isolated 30 year old nerd – almost 11 months to make a significant stylistic/framing error. It’s a record of self-control and savvy the Frums of our world never achieve, but they are ferocious in exploiting it, aren’t they?
Snowden finally goofed. In the face of fact that he singlehandedly provided us with documentation of the NSA’s warrantless surveillance of US persons, their years-long efforts to weaken civilian encryption, and their many attempts to thwart civilian oversight by elected representatives of the American people… what was your point again?
How so? By asking a question? HAHAHAHAH.
You know what comes after second grade? Thaaaaatttts right: THIRD GRADE. You know what’s after that?
Yes, by asking a question. In a tightly scripted, controlled venue where he didn’t have a hope in hell of making an impact. It’s a pretty inconsequential mistake, by any reasonable measure. Young men, even sharp ones, get tripped up all the time by machers like Putin. Who does after all have control of Snowden’s freedom.
So how is it that this minor gaff is getting so heavily worked over by hackneyed press courtiers like David Frum? Or the writers of the Volokh Conspiracy (a WaPo blog). Why are they all over it? Because they think they’ve finally got a hook in Snowden, after nearly a year during which he pretty thoroughly confounded them.
Their little gleeful struttings all over the pages of their (very) mainstream, middlebrow venues say more about them than about Snowden. They’ve never looked more pathetic. A year’s worth of massive revelations about anti-Constitutional behavior… and all they do is prance and caper like motley-clad Medieval fools, shouting about the man who made the leaks. So very, very eager to keep their lords happy and keep the focus off the information.
