Johnathan Pie is a fictional character created by a comedian named Tom Walker.
Kind of a British Colbert thing.
I’ve only seen a bit of his stuff. But it’s intended as a not as over the top as you’d hope parody of British news pundits. The grossness is part and parcel of that.
And I did not say in respect to membership. I was very clearly talking about general response and escalation there. I’ve already said, from the start, that membership won’t be happening. Even acknowledged that some sort of magic instant membership would represent military escalation.
The thing even the Ukrainians are trying to avoid.
But sure process is so sacrosanct that any all discussion of what might be done in and around that process. Or with regards to Ukraine’s pre-existing process of reform and EU membership can’t be discussed.
Oh! I thought that’s what it would take, but you said I clearly had no idea. In that case, I revert to my previous stance: discuss, negotiate, and if desirable, implement.
My casual outrage is at the running popular discussion dismissing the entire idea and criticizing Zelenskyy and the Ukrainians for bringing it up.
You said up thread that EU membership means something. But you don’t seem to think taking any kind of steps or signaling commitment. Or even just putting the idea in front of millions of eyes every day means anything in its own right.
AAAAAAND that is WWIII.
Which frankly. Actual EU membership for Ukraine tomorrow would also trigger. Which I’ve said twice now.
And if it’s intended as a criticism?
I think the NYT did a poor job framing that video for sure. American audiences mostly aren’t familiar with Walker or the character, and that’s pretty much the first thing in there.
the process of becoming a nato member is even more rigorous and convoluted than joining the eu. the consequences of making ukraine a nato member while it is currently at war with russia might have . . ., how did you put that? oh yeah–
that’s one way of describing a shooting war between nato and russia. your parenthetical comment is almost hyperbolically understated. i’d certainly agree that risking a nuclear war is:
how about we agree that this situation is unlikely to be resolved by fast-tracking either eu or nato membership. nor is it likely to be resolved by israeli mediation which seems more inclined to stroke putin’s ego than to try to find some middle ground both zelensky and putin can accept.
You seemed to be on the bandwagon of “A symbol - NOW” and I inferred you wanted the man-made change and a new set of rules, now.
IT TAKES YEARS. No amount of ingenuity can fix that - the rules are in place - put in place by the members, because they want them followed. To change them, all members have to agree and much legislation has to then happen, after the lengthy discussions.
As you say:
Which does not happen overnight.
It seems many here have already decided it must be desirable. Zelensky has, of course but re
I simply said that he must know any ‘immediate’ announcement from the EU could only be symbolic (because of the rules). Some people here seem expect it could be made to actually happen - immediately.
I am not at all certain the first part is accurate (but not even sure an objective comparison could be made - apples and oranges) but the second part - yeah, the consequences would be cataclysmic, as I think I said.
Yeah I just think that’s on the Times, not neccisarily on Walker.
Didn’t say I liked it. Or the joke worked. Especially in that context. @gatto just seemed unfamiliar.
Yeah I get that. But that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t take steps, or even just signal a commitment to do so.
It taking time and effort, doesn’t man you shouldn’t start. And the EU has. And they are sending messages. Maybe there’s another step or move. Practical or not that could have a bigger impact.
As has been said multiple times, the messages and signals have been sent and some were in place before all this.
Symbols are important at different times and have different import at different times.
Stopping Putin is the most urgent need. Symbols now or next week are not going to make a blind bit of difference to Putin now or next week, and people are dying now and will die next week. Yes we need some more symbols but they are not the hill to die on as we have both already agreed.
(Must go out now - may be back later this evening.)
But of course the EU gets to determine how this works. If they decide to make it how this works, then that’s how it works. There is no natural law, here.
If there’s no set number of chairs, then a place can be made at the table.
Good point. Burn that one and get a fresh one for Ukraine.
I know. But maybe think back to Brexit and how often Eastern European immigration and suspicious foreign meat were central to the Euro-Skeptic horse shit.
That angle was a surprisingly common and acceptable xenophobic shit take even among my otherwise progressive and pro-Europe family in Ireland. Seems to have faded out a lot since the Brexit campaign.
Sure, but there are always emergency provisions and expedited processes. They could also declare Yanukovych’s move to undo the association membership as null-and-void since he was a puppet set up by Russia.
And once something is written down, it can never be changed. As a matter of fact, the UK is still part of the EU, because that was written down.
