Many people are often confused about the mechanics of the US constitution also, which can be amended.
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“ An amendment may be proposed by a two-thirds vote of both Houses of Congress, or, if two-thirds of the States request one, by a convention called for that purpose. The amendment must then be ratified by three-fourths of the State legislatures, or three-fourths of conventions called in each State for ratification.”
Wow, that’s even easier
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I mean…we have managed to amend it 27 times so far.
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Thank you, but don’t ignore @GagHalfrunt 's sterling efforts, seeing as those included links and citations (i.e. facts, compared to my protestations).
Exactly - don’t they know
I mean, surely the US’s rules aren’t
It does rather seem that way, doesn’t it.
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Well, hey…while we’re miles away arguing rules and semantics, perhaps we can get Putin to abide by the rules. 
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I usually love a good snarkz and yours are usually particularly good, but in this case: get real and [please] acknowledge reality.
Which is that rules were and are changed to help an invaded country in distress.
[EDITED. I didn’t want to insult, or talk down. I reacted to your post, which I felt was demeaning, and which is factually wrong. I apologize for the “get real”.]
For what it’s worth, many people on this thread which spun into a new topic are attacking someone personally for an opinion which is shared not only by me, but as far as I can take from my daily Presseschau shared by quite some political commentators and obviously the EU itself.
The EU definitely cannot make anyone follow “the rules” of international law by suicidally ignoring the rule of law. That people on this BBS are suggesting this is kind of weird, frankly.
I will elaborate, and then take a break from this topic, if I can resist reading here.
The rule of law and due process as well as the aim of self-preservation of the EU are prerequisite conditions against fast-tracking an EU membership of Ukraine. The EU could drop any of those, but not without the guaranteed loss the other two conditions. To be clear: this would mean Russia wins. And not only in gaining control about Ukraine, but in all it’s push for undermining the European integration.
Serbia, Kosovo, North Macedonia, Albania, Turkey, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Georgia and Moldova would and could not just stand by and STFU if the EU fast-tracked Ukraine membership. This alone would be dangerous enough to make the EU collapse.
The countries which joined 2007, and 2004 would also be in severe political turmoil. Dealing with Poland and Hungary, which are clearly no longer compliant with the rules of the EU is dangerous enough. (Sidenote: I would like to be cited on that in the future when unambiguous historical proof is presented that Russia is more than a bit responsible for this development.)
Personally, I wouldn’t even rule out Greece to be on the brink of a civil war in the near future if the EU would break it’s own rules. And my bet would be that the Nazis of the AfD in Germany would profit massively, to an extent which would be endangering German constitutional order.
And that doesn’t even account for the economic shock which would follow a fast-tracking of EU membership of a country because it is at war.
And even if everyone on this discussion would disagree with this assessment, and the assessment the EU itself obviously made, that still doesn’t answer the question how to avoid the EU to be caught up in this war.
The last world war fought with soldiers was bad enough. If you guys are pushing for another, you are on the right track when asking for the suicide of the EU.
Why the heck are we even discussing this?
read on at your own risk
I sincerely hope noone is taking my palpable anger personally. I can’t help it. I am already trying hard to function. What’s happening in the last two years was bad enough. It make me literally sick. But what is happening in the last three weeks is a nightmare on top of the last two years. I don’t believe a nuclear war is imminent. But it is certainly more than just a very unlikely possibility, or a theoretical option in a game theory scenario. And I haven’t even started reflecting that we allowed fascism to rise to the occasion again.
I don’t blame any mutant here personally, but have to state the obvious, apparently: mutants in the UK and the US are quite closer to see the countries devolve into authoritarianism or even full-blown fascism than all parts of the EU which haven’t made the turn to authoritarianism already. Have the grace to wait for the elections in France. If things turn even worse, the fucking Front Nationale (Rassemblement, my arse!) will start killing the EU from within anyways. We don’t fucking need to fast track that ourselves, thank you very much.
Fuck this shit.
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A joke?
Was it? Really? The author did not give that impression.
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The whole reason this topic is raising so many heckles is that some of us are a lot fewer miles away than others.
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One thing I know for sure is Putin doesn’t really care about your opinion one way or another.
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Try not talking down to people, yeah?
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Seems like a lot of people on this thread are conflating “can’t” with “difficult.” They aren’t exactly the same thing.
Being shitty to other posters over that difference is not OK.
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Some of us also have decades-long relationships with folks over there. For me, Ukraine and Moldova.
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Despite being “on the other side of the world,” my country is in NATO and I’m about two miles from the nearest military target
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This whole thread makes me sad. It has devolved into a back and forth about who has skin in the game and who does not. This is a hypothetical, and every single person on earth has some degree of skin in the game.
Why don’t we talk about the specifics of EU admission rules? Why don’t we talk about what needs to be done for Ukraine to become an EU member country? Why don’t we talk about how long that process would take and what could be done to make it smoother/quicker?
I think that our EU friends as well as those of us outside of the EU would both get a lot more out of a conversation about these things.
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This.
The last couple of years have put us all on edge, now the last couple of weeks seem to have pushed us off that edge.
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Because that’s not what’s getting challenged here. The Ukraine had started the early process. And even when fast tracked, it takes years. And an unanimous vote of all the other members. And not having border disputes. Well, the last one can realistically get fast tracked by saying that the dispute is rather one-sided, it’s not Ukraine that’s aiming for Russian territory here.
Two main criteria for even being able to join are haven “ institutions guaranteeing democracy, the rule of law, human rights and respect for and protection of minorities” and “a functioning market economy and the capacity to cope with competition and market forces in the EU”.
Are those reasonable fulfilled at the moment? I don’t think so. Even in October 21 Ukraine was still neglect in installing a proper head for its anti-corruption agency. And the EU report on the efforts wasn’t very favourable either. See https://www.eca.europa.eu/lists/ecadocuments/ap20_10/ap_support_to_ukraine_en.pdf
The EU is a politcal union. Not just a trade bloc. It has a parliament, empowered by the bvoriting citizens of the EU, which makes laws which are binding to the member nations.
The idea to just “suspend the rules, let them join, people are dying” as if we’re talking about a trade agreement that puts away with some tariffs is is somewhat dismissive.
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I think that we all want the same thing here: a future in which a democratic Ukraine can join the EU. The idea of doing it immediately is moot, as the EU has already said no to the idea. We can bicker about whether the EU should or even could have said yes, but that is not getting us anywhere.
I am imploring everyone to talk about what can be done moving forward rather than why something can or can’t be done when we all know that it won’t be done. I know that isn’t what’s being challenged here, but it can be if we try.
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“Ukraine is a country,” says William Taylor, who served as the U.S. ambassador to Ukraine from 2006 to 2009. “The Ukraine is the way the Russians referred to that part of the country during Soviet times … Now that it is a country, a nation, and a recognized state, it is just Ukraine. And it is incorrect to refer to the Ukraine, even though a lot of people do it.”
Taylor says that the diaspora, those Ukrainians now abroad and hearing reports about their homeland in English, are particularly sensitive to this definite article. “Whenever they hear the Ukraine, they fume,” Taylor says. “It kind of denies their independence, denies their sovereignty.”
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