Figuring out what to do with Trump's base means admitting they are racist

That’s Median boss. The “midpoint in a frequency distribution”. Its a much better metric for this sort of thing than Mean (mathematical average). Because one astronomically wealthy or poor person can’t skew the numbers in the same way. They’re still just part of the “richer than, or poorer than this number” assessment. Lots of very wealthy or very poor people can move the number. But that’s exactly the thing you’re trying to figure out, so you want that to happen.

Trump’s primary supporters. His base. Those who support him specifically. And not the GOP, or conservative supreme court picks, or just dislike Hillary. Have a median income higher than the general population, and even more so higher than Hillary supporters. Even if you limit the data set to whites. What that means is the total set of Trump’s data sits generally speaking higher than the the other sets. Or the bulk of Trump’s set sits higher than the bulk of the other sets. There are more people making more money among Trump supporters than the general population or Hillary supporters.

Thus the majority of Trump’s support can’t be coming from the poorest working class whites. Particularly when in actually polling data, and demographics from the primary votes, which ever angle you look at (income level, exposure to immigration pressure, unemployment level, regions effected by globalization, factory shut downs etc). At least a slight majority of those types are often going for Democrats or Hillary.

Now that’s not entirely the whole story. That element has in a lot of ways traditionally been a part of the DNC base. Particularly Union workers. But DNC support from those same quarters is lower this year than its ever been before. And DNC support from college age whites (traditionally a GOP demo) is rising. The shift in college educated whites, especially women, is clearly down to Trump. But poor and working class whites have been shifting GOP for a while. So I don’t know that we can attribute that to Trump.

Either way the more you poke his demographics with a stick. The clearer it is that even where these people do truly support Trump. And not just back him for other reasons. They don’t make up the bulk of his supporters. Or the driving force. If the median income of Trumps supporters in the $70,000 range. The midpoint of his distribution. The point at which half make less, and half make more. And the poverty line for family’s is in the $20,000-$30,000 range. Then the vast bulk of his supporters sit well above the poverty line. And the US total median income is ~50,000. The majority of Trump’s supporters also sit above that. Apparently the Median household income for non-Hispanic whites sat around $62k . So most of Trumps supporters are also doing better than most whites.

That’s exactly the opposite skew in median you’d expect if his base support was driven disproportionately by whites who were struggling economically.

So lets be clear. Except in the case of his 0% polling with Blacks. When ever we say x demographic supports a politician, what we really mean is that most. A statistically measurable majority support that politician. Trump, and the GOP more generally, do garner some support from the rust belt, struggling white demo. Depending on how you attempt to measure and track that support, and which state you look at or whether you look at it nationally. They sometimes even get more support than Hillary and the DNC from these people. But most of Trumps support isn’t coming from there. And critically the people who follow him specifically, who put him in the position he’s in. The critical back stop below which he can’t fall. Don’t appear to be mostly drawn from that group.

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So do a few places in the US.

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You’re confusing racism with nativism.

I guarantee you that if the immigrants are white, the locals won’t think the kids are “foreigners” when they grow up there. That only applies to brown people or other non-white looking folks. That’s because large parts of the country are pretty racist (see entire thread and topic here).

If I had an Irish dad, do you think any redneck would notice? If he was from India…well, golly!

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Funny you mention the Irish

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Not so much the Irish (currently). Since we are America’s favorite identifiable ethnic group these days. Though that Redneck will be excited. Very excited. And pepper you with negative Irish stereotypes he views as pleasant.

But where I’m at there’s a lot of nasty feelings and reactions about Poles and other Eastern European ethnics and Greeks from the bigoted set. Sometimes especially if they’re immigrants, but mostly just generally. Where my family is in Maine? Its Italians. And they haven’t seen an Italian immigrant in 70+ years, so its native born ethnics they don’t like. They don’t trust them and don’t like them. Even in NY, my aunts first Husband was Italian. So she had an Italian last name for a few years after the divorce. Some one refused to sell her a house because he didn’t want Italians moving in to his Irish neighborhood. My aunt is 1st generation Irish.

Its still not racism really. What it is is ethnic rather than racial bias, and it is hopelessly, hopelessly, tied up with nativism.

Funny thing about all that anti-Irish sentiment. Irish were not considered to be white (or more accurately perhaps the right sort of white) at the time anti-Irish sentiment was the highest. We most certainly are now.

MEANWHILE. In the 19th century US, especailly about the middle and during the Civil war. And even extending into the early 20th in some cases (2nd klan, nativist boom). A lot of the that anti-Irish sentiment was driven by “Native born Irish”. The decedents of Irish, often protestant, Irish immigrants from before the 19th century immigration wave. Directed of course against recently arrived, often Catholic, Irish immigrants arriving at the time as a result of the Irish diaspora.

So even that is heavily driven by nativism. Even as the Irish are our classic example of “white” being a bullshit concept, and ethnic bias.

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Can you bring it forward 150 years, perhaps? You’re kind of making my point for me without knowing it. Whiteness is constructed and dirty Irish and Italians long ago blended into the rest of “white” America.

The thing is, if a redneck can’t just look at you with their eyes (or hear an accent) and tell “yer foreign,” and you present as white, they’ll accept you as white. Ask people of mixed race who have some family who pass as white and some that don’t about how people treat them based entirely on appearance. Immigrants who can pass as white quickly just are accepted as white.

But if you were second or third generation Polish, these same folks would never even know.

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#allpolicevictimslivesmatter

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May I introduce the Rt Hon. Tub of Lard MP?

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Of course there are religious outliers that treat sexuality as a natural part of life. But they tend to not be the ones putting pressure on state officials to teach abstinence only (if that) sex ed in the first place.

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Sure, but the Irish are pretty white in American now and have been for a while…[quote=“Ryuthrowsstuff, post:170, topic:87585”]
Since we are America’s favorite identifiable ethnic group these days. Though that Redneck will be excited. Very excited. And pepper you with negative Irish stereotypes he views as pleasant.
[/quote]

Quoted for truth!

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You are making some interesting points. I wonder if the polls cited factor in people who are not going to vote? Because the poorest part of the community typically doesn’t.

Hilaire Belloc (who was unfortunately a verschluggener anti-Semite as well as a socialist, people are like that) once pointed out that the most conservative people, the ones most likely to look down on people who appear to be poor, are the ones in the petit bourgeois layer. They’ve moved up far enough not to be socially aware of poor people, but not far enough that they are not fearful of themselves becoming less well off and losing status; and they want to “preserve their differentials”, or have people to look down on.
I’m a trustee of an organisation that’s active in social cohesion, my wife is more involved in this kind of thing than I am, and it’s noticeable (if slightly embarrassing) that the people we know through these organisations are all definitely from the layer above the petit bourgeois layer, people who are rather secure financially. In the US, of course, there’s a very definite skin colour and language factor in the demographics.

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Thanks for the clarifications! The stuff I have been replying to has been saying average and not median. Median makes more sense.

I don’t think “struggling economically” as characterized by the Cracked piece (I can’t believe I am seriously referencing something printed by Cracked, yet here I am) is really synonymous with “poor”, either. It’s more about a way of life being eradicated by elimination of mining, farming and domestic manufacturing jobs, the decline of the church as the social center and news source, &etc. Even if all the olds are comfortably well off, and the young-uns are going to become Internet stars making lots of benjamins, it doesn’t mean the community isn’t struggling with a sense of loss of culture and identity.

Of course, if a person has contempt for non-urban lifestyles, they are likely to project the history of racism and sexism and religious bigotry that all Americans share exclusively onto rural folk and say “good riddance to their culture” - and perhaps the Orange Candidate feeds that, with his flagrant race-baiting, sexual misbehavior and blatant manipulation of religious figures.

It also applies if your name is sufficiently unfamiliar.

I’m white, light brown hair, fair skin, California-TV-accent, but my name is “sounds foreign”. It’s Greek, by way of Italy and Latin America. In the midwest, I’ve had people react to me quite pleasantly, but on hearing my full name, they get suspicious and ask me where I’m from. For that reason, I never volunteer my last name; my first name is uncommon enough.

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That really blows. :frowning:

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So far as I know this research is based on a couple of things. Mostly demographic break downs of exit polling and ballot info from the primaries. And some info based on who’s donated money to him. So it definitely avoids non-voters. Being based on people who have actually voted for him and similarly strong markers of support.

It’s also a good way to carve out those people who plan to vote for him for other reasons that full support and enthusiasm for his particular platform and personality. Particularly when you limit it to the earlier primaries your only looking at those voters who actually did vote for the guy despite other options. Even when his chances didn’t seem plausible.

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Or simply identifiable with a non-WHITE CHRISTIAN tradition.

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I’ll just make my last name ‘X’ to fix that problem.

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or “Painting a target on oneself” in colloquial English.

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Francis Xavier begs to differ.

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I was unaware that the Jesuit saint went by Frankie X as he turned Goa into the hotbed of spirituality it current enjoys.

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