Google suggests turbans are banned in schools, on driving licence photos etc and have been since 2004.
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You say this like itâs an obvious fact that anyone who knows anything about France should know.
That couldnât be further from the truth.
The French state had long allowed crucifixes in public schools, and, for must of its history, the kippa was allowed as well.
It was only the 2004 law that banned the headscarf, kippa and âoverly largeâ crosses (though small crucifixes are still allowedâŚ)
I realize 11 years is a long time, but itâs not actually over 100 years. The French constitution states that the State is secular, but this was never interpreted as barring individual signs of religion (e.g. crucifixes on the neck) until 2004.
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This was a bad example, as a Star of David is a religious symbol.
A long skirt, however, is not a symbol of religion but of a culture that interprets a particular religious passage in a certain way. A Star of David pretty nearly indicates/connotes Judaism, but a long skirt does not indicate Islam.
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Private school totally guaranteed.
Public school should be fine too. You donât have a religious agenda, youâre not going for some proselytism are you?
Proselytism
That girl was and the principal strictly enforced the rule. It doesnât get enforced often.
From the New York Times article:
âThe question isnât how long the skirt is,â Mr. Dutot said. âThey come with an outfit that shows an affiliation that we respect. But once at school, you have to return to a republican and secular space â but they only remove the veil.â He said that several other girls had gone to the school similarly clothed and had been sent home to change without incident and that only Sarah and her family had made a fuss.
Source: French School Deems Teenagerâs Skirt an Illegal Display of Religion - The New York Times
I think youâll find that most civil rights issues are brought to light by the small subset of people who make a fuss.
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Then it will go to court and everyone is fine with that.
You realize that the Kouachi brothers could have achieved their objectives to muzzle Charlie Hebdo without a blood bath by taking the journal to court instead??
Charlie Hebdo has more often be sued by catholic associations than Muslim ones.
Like if the solution has to be the physical confrontation, to make a fuss about it, to pull out a Kalashnikov than take it to court.
No one has suggested that the girl in question should shoot anyone to death. But she also shouldnât have to take the school to court just to wear a goddamn skirt.
Invoking the Charlie Hebdo massacre as justification for keeping a girl from wearing a skirt is tasteless and bizarre.
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OMG I THINK I WAS JUST CONVERTED TO RADICAL ISLAM BY LOOKING AT THAT OUTFIT.
(But seriously: Lighten up, France.)
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Hey, France just doesnât want anybody touching their stuff.
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Iâd still like an answer to my earlier question. How is an ordinary, off-the-shelf ladiesâ dress a irrefutable sign of religion?
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I actually think this is the core of the problem. How can you allow people to wear what they want and simultaneously restrict certain kinds of clothes without being distinctly discriminatory - itâs the worst of all worlds.
I realise @branspore was being mocking in rephrasing my point, but I still stand by it. Wearing uniform at school was a liberating experience. I didnât have to think once about what to wear and nobody knew who the poor kids were (or indeed the rich kids). I distinctly remember thinking when I was about 12 that I was really pleased I didnât have to worry about being laughed at at school for my poor fashion sense. Being someone who generally didnât give a crap about what people though about me, I can only imagine what others would have thought about it.
If I can reassure everyone, most of the French media seems to be agree to say it was a disproportionate reaction.
Only two things I will say to understand (not agree) this :
- the academie (the administration) seems to have a lot of pressure from over parents
- adolescent are well know for drama, proselytism and testing social limits (and thatâs okay, adult are here to crush their foolish dreams)
France is a laĂŻque (secular) republic, and is was intend to protect everyone (protestant during the French revolution), not to be a pretext to discriminate.
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Look at the picture above of the girl and clothing in question.
You still want to get behind your man Dutot? Because once you remove the hajib that is everyday western clothing. The man straight lied. But you got his back right?
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Did you never meet one of those kids who like to be super provocative about, let say, anarchism ?
Gee, that skirt looks just like the kind weâre supposed to wear for choral concerts.
What exactly is wrong with it? Without the veil (horrors!), what is wrong with her outfit? Itâs an honest questionâŚI donât understand how a plain black skirt is so offensive.
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if it was only for the dress itself, there would have been no problem, but the girlâs behavior was in fact the real problem. She tried to bend the secularism rules with a different outfit, but it didnât work
and here I thought they just wanted brown people to âgo home.â
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Yeah well, I suppose the Stripes metaphor falls apart thereâŚ
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