That you’re so insistent on reducing this to the individual level speaks volumes.
But you are right. The trash power structures that trash men created are indeed destroying life on this planet as we know it, not just destroying the lives of women. And the epitome of Trash Man is running the ship. One way or another, the trash men will go. The question is only whether or not they will take everything down with them.
Well, I am one, and I have two sons…I don’t hate myself or them. Probably because I do my best to not be an asshole and am raising them to not be assholes 
ya know…unlike this toolbag.
Maybe he’s a Thatcherite?
They will.
Oh, but no, no, no… an attack on one man is an attack on yous men! Especially the boys! He’s the everyman, don’t you see? So we don’t have to fix society to be more inclusive of women, silly goose! Women just need to shut up about their individual problems, and it will all be fixed! /s
Yeah… amazing movie, tho. And I keep wishing Dolly would show up in Grace and Frankie…
Yes, but those “top games” are “top PC and console games”, which from your own graph, now represents about half of gaming revenue:
So that’s like saying “Trump voters are the stereotypical voter”.
Revenue trends suggest that “console and PC gamers” will become a smaller and smaller part of the revenue pie as casual and mobile gaming command more and more revenue, and IMHO ten years from now the discussion isn’t going to be on toxic masculinity in gaming culture, it’s going to be on toxic gamification methodology used to addict “gamers” (who are now considered everyone, not just boys) opening their wallet to games specifically designed to do that.
Meanwhile, asshats will still be punching down wherever they can.
IMHO, the problems of misogyny and bigotry remain platforms and environment that allow such behaviour to thrive. This includes “classic” video games (by your meaning, not mine, since a “classic” video game to me would be something like Mario or Tetris or Myst, personally!) - which absolutely should be held to account for not doing more to feed that beast.
The fact that the rest of the world thinks the USA is a monolithic culture of Trump supporters doesn’t mean that is the reality on the ground, or that that perception needs to be perpetuated any more than the idea that “gamers” are all toxic misogynistic bigots and the whole culture is suspect as a result, and I don’t think there’s any value in either of those generalizations.
These male trash who go after any criticism of gaming like it’s a personal attack - I’d bet you money - would do this for any hobby or thing they care about. and our collective culture makes this, if not acceptable, than at least tolerated. And that has to change. Regulating videogames won’t fix it, Regulating social media won’t fix it. They’re just symptoms of the disease, and something more fundamental needs to happen here.
At the risk of perpetuating this derail…
I think there are lots of reasons why people feel enabled to behave badly in the internet age.
Anonymity;
The proliferation of niche online communities and message boards that reassure and amplify your own twisted beliefs by hooking you up with other people who share those beliefs;
Platforms like Twitter that let you get instant direct access to people who would otherwise have gatekeepers to thwart you…
To say that it’s all the fault of violent video games is a little reductive, even if they may be a contributing factor.
Wait, didn’t you literally use this exact same list in the other video game thread to prove that Not All Video Games were about violence and gore when it suited your purposes?
3 of your examples are sports games, which is an enormous stretch in terms of trying to argue that video games are somehow uniquely capable of teaching people to dominate their opponents. Real sports do that too. And buddy, if you think video games are some unique haven of toxicity, you haven’t seen Boing Boing’s archive of parents being shitty assholes at little league games.
At this point it’s crystal clear to me that you’re not interested in discussing this issue in good faith, so I’m just going to leave it at that.
If you have data, then get thee to a peer-reviewed journal.
However, you might just be seeing idiots in this particular sample because the whole of humanity is capable of being awful, at a fairly high background rate
If I was a betting (trash) man…
Trasherite?
I’ll see myself out
The article literally says a group of dark-web Brazilian gamers targeted her, I somehow don’t think videogames drew them there just like /v/ was created on an anonymous forum for video games but was the epicenter of GG crap.
The problems in this story are: circles of people that dedicate their lives to targeting the least bit famous women for harassment, the people online who sheepishly do what those circles and their bit’s ask, other influencers who know how to make a quick buck dipping into the drama, the glorification of harassment that major social media companies encourage, and limp-dick corporate assholes who just go ahead and fire people when asked to. Those are not video game specific problems, it’s also true for almost everything with a fandom right now.
Maybe “classic” in the sense that it’s being recycled from an earlier discussion:
The problem is not with the medium in and of itself:
The way I see it, both you and @FlyerJack have parts of the truth. You’re right that Toxic Masculinity and misogynistic power structures are things that need to be addressed by society as a whole (or at least by a lot more people than those who acknowledge it now.)
But-- we each interact with the struggle on an individual level. And I don’t feel like blasting men as trash when they’re aware of their privilege and raise their voices in calling out the evil that they see in the world. Scalzi isn’t trash when he points out that white men play the game of Life on Easy Mode. Our @tinoesroho isn’t trash when he calls out misogynistic bullshit on the BBS. (And I’m not ignoring everyone else who does it too-- thank you!)
Plus, I don’t think encouraging people to think of themselves as trash is going to solve the problem. At least some bullying behavior gets caused when people feel less-than and take it out on others. I’d rather have people think, “yes, these evils exist and I’ve benefitted from it, but it’s wrong, I can be better than that and work to change it.”
Without going too much into TMI, I’ve had my own struggles with self-worth and internalized criticism. It makes it harder to act to improve my life, to tell myself that yes, I do deserve better. I hate it, and I don’t wish that on others.
I feel ya, sis…
I can understand the woman’s anger, though, considering what happened to her. It’s happened to many of us, after all, in one way or another. If we’re not being hounded online for being in a “male” space, we’re being belittled for our work. Does this sometimes happen to men? Sure. But not on the same systemic level that it happens to women on.
Well… Men are trash. I don’t see anything factually incorrect there. I guess Razer is worried about upsetting their trash men demographic.
That is a striking statement. There is this vicious positive feedback loop that memes do not disrupt only empower both sides to ignore any message for scoreboarding.
And as long as males hold so many levers to power I am not sure what to do.
that would be awesome if she did!
Funny how some folks see things like “All men are trash” or “Gaming culture is horrid” and they somehow internalize or take it personally? Weird.
Wait…there was a shooting that happened at a Madden tournament, so…yeah…sports games are violent too.
is that how that works? Did I do it right?
I’m not really sure down playing systemic misogyny is going to help either, though? Or trying to shut down women pointing out how culture is a reflection of our (often internalized) values with regards to issues like race, sexuality, and gender (which is precisely what FF was doing). The entire problem is that men are going online to shut women down for daring to point out real world problems in our lives, and how those problems can be understood via our cultural engagements.
I can’t find the quote now, but James Baldwin in talking about white people, notes that if people think they are white, then he can’t have a conversation about race with them, because they can’t get over the social construct of race. Same with gender. As long as people are willing to boil it down to gender wars (men vs. women) and not see the bigger picture of how patriarchal culture hurts us all. As long as they think they are “men” (and accepting all that cultural baggage that entails, instead of trying to redefine it in a less toxic way), then we’re not getting anywhere. All we’re going to do is make it about one group of people vs. another. It’s not that she’s really saying that all men are actual trash, it’s that the category of men who embrace the more toxic features of that identity are trash…
And I suspect that at least some of those believe that they are really going against the ideological grain when they do, because they assume that feminism, etc, is the predominant ideological world view, when it’s MOST CERTAINLY not.
I don’t think calling all males trash has much reflection to it. To me it is a reactionary war-cry (a violent male calling card) in something that needs … well I don’t know what it needs.
And you are absolutely correct that measured responses aren’t working. Look at Oregon and its state legislature. Males are not only going online to hate they are using tools of disenfranchising monarchial power grabs to stop people from trying to re-distribute power between citizens.
