German town seizes and sells family's dog on eBay to cover their debts

Poor people in America have their dogs taken away punitively under social service pretenses all the time. No joke to add, although to my credit I didn’t go as dark as @corydodt

Wait… did you… you don’t want to make a pun back at me? :sob:

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Morals and ethics aside - this is formally more than questionable, which will come back and bite them in time.

38890f1451f14136c707ca1d4ec971fa

Besides, there is another aspect developing: the woman who bought the dog says she was cheated by the seller and considers to sue the town. Apparently the dog was offered as healthy, but isn’t. Resulting in substantial bills from the vet.

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I believe it may well be.

I think the relevant law is in the Verwaltungsvollstreckungsgesetz for North-Rhine Westphalia (VwVG NRW).

§27 of that incorporates §§811 to 813b of the Zivilprozessordnung (ZPO)

Those say amongst other things that pets (as opposed to animals kept for commercial purposes) are not subject to seizure, unless:

  • they have a particularly high value;
  • not being able to seize the animal would cause the creditor unreasonable hardship; and
  • seizing the animal is compatible with animal welfare and the ‘legitimate interests’ of the debtor.

Any such seizure has to be authorised by the enforcement agency.

§811c ZPO

In this case, the enforcement agency is the town of course. :frowning:

Under §30 VwVG NRW, chattels seized (and yes, a dog is a chattel in the eyes of the law) are to be sold if the enforcement authority so directs. Sale is to be by public auction undertaken by the bailiff.

So a sale by the bailiff via ebay would certainly qualify. I don’t know whether ebay’s terms of business would have been violated by using the platform for an official public auction but to be honest I couldn’t give a toss about ebay in this scenario so I’m not going to waste the time looking through their German terms of business.

There are some further rules about publicising the date and time of the auction, who can take part and when the auction is to be concluded (as soon as the amount to be recovered is met) but none of those seem to prohibit flogging stuff on ebay.

There’s obviously scope to challenge the assessment that it was ok to seize the dog in the circumstances and I’m doubtful given the reports whether the bailiffs actually made any application to the relevant officer in the Town Hall for authorisation to seize the dog or received such authorisation.

If they didn’t…

On the other hand, it wouldn’t have needed more than a quick phone call.

“There’s nothing here worth seizing except maybe the pug. They’re worth a bit. We’ve been here x- number of times and this is the only thing of any value. They’ve made no efforts to reduce the debt. We’ve offered stage payments, nothing. We could reduce the tax debt she owes by a fair bit if we sell the dog. I can look after it until the sale.”

“Ok, go ahead. They’ll be cut up about it but we have a duty to our tax payers.”

That’d probably do it. :frowning:

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Aside from it being a dick move the part that really attracts my attention is:
“Obtaining the proceeds of the sale through a private eBay account was a very questionable decision by the enforcement officer,”

I’m certainly no expert on German public sector accounting and asset control practices; but “so, we seized something under state authority and then one of our employees independently flogged it on their eBay account and maybe sent the proceeds to the correct place?” seems insane by any reasonable standards.

Aside from any specific, affirmative “these are the procedures for the auction of seized goods” regulations that may pertain, the potential for various more and less creative flavors of self dealing when stuff is just exiting the official inpound and being sold off by individual employees seems atrociously high.(And even if everyone is on the level, did the municipality agree to whatever eBay/PayPal’s fees in the transaction were? Is their ability to auction future items being hurt by their account not getting the transaction history and feedback?)

Thinking back to my time with a US school district, I would have been so fired for ebaying even our own obsolete hardware(purchased by the department and depreciated according to procedure by the accounting/finance side; no property seizure issues or suspiciously short periods between purchase and declaring EoL); there were fairly strict procedures for disposal of even gear suspected of having only enough salvage value to cover it’s recycling, much less stuff suspected of still having some value.

Even an organizational ebay account, set up for the purpose and transparent to the district’s people, rather than me or a colleague just selling them off under a personal account, would have involved a bunch of checking with legal and may or may not have gotten the OK.

Dog seizure might be lawful evil in this context; but how the auction was handled seems like a bookkeeping disaster by any sane standard.

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Ein cutten auf mein hunds schnauzer.
How does ist schmell?
Schtil bed, Schtil bed!

Zat vas no Pug!
Zat vas a Debt Retriever.

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It’s rather more medieval than most modern practices but not that unusual.

There is an official, bound by oath, whose duty it is to seize goods and sell them to recoup monies owed. That’s a bailiff.

Not mere employees. These are Beamte. Oathbound officials as above. If they nick stuff or peculate, they are in breach of duty and their oath.

See my reply above. If I’ve understood the law correctly, the bailiff is supposed to organise and undertake the sale. That is literally part of his duty.

Likewise he is under a duty to properly account. Whether that is an ebay auction or an old-fashioned auction - what’s the difference? Apart of course from the fact that selling it on ebay is a lot easier, cheaper and has a better audit trail than a traditional auction?

Sooner or later, someone is going to be entrusted with making the arrangements.

In this case the city confirms that the proceeds of sale went into their coffers correctly. That’s not an issue here.

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Personally, I have a rule never to eat anything smarter than myself.

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How To Use An Apostrophe

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That would definitely have been illegal.

Mobility aids are exempt from seizure.

Which is one of the things that makes me doubt they jumped through the necessary hoops for a legal seizure of a pet.

> Additional info:

Now, Jordan is suing the city for what she describes as a fraudulent advertisement about the pug’s condition. According to Jordan’s statement in The Ahlener Tageblatt newspaper, Edda had an eye infection and needed four operations, despite being advertised as healthy.

She is seeking compensation from the city for the purchase price, as well as €1,800 ($2,048) in treatments.

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And there is this:

"Can I buy a pet on eBay?

No. Although you can buy some animal and wildlife products on eBay, pets and other live animals are not allowed to be listed for sale on our site."

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/prohibited-restricted-items/zoo-animals-wildlife-products-policy?id=4327

Definitely more than just one thing is off about this seizure and sale.

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Damn it - you had to make me do it :slight_smile:

Is in fact even more restrictive than the US version. The only animals you’re allowed to sell on ebay germany are aquarium fish if they are sold in their aquarium and only for collection in person and these guys (as eggs):

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clearly she should have advertised them as pets and dressed them up as pugs.

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I believe it was Horace who first said “seize the dog.”

Capere Canem

I like it.

Nice background and research my dude!

I grew up on a farm. I can appreciate how animals are sometimes pets and sometimes tools and sometimes marketable resources. Side note, humans can and will pack-bond with anything. Doesn’t mean you can let your steer sleep at the foot of your bed.

“One year old, unspayed, pedigreed pug.” If the dog had been spayed I might be willing to buy ‘Beloved member of the family’ but by leaving the dog able to litter you are creating a business opportunity. According to https://pugspot.com/pug-costs/, that’ll run from $1500 to $2K.

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With a brick in it.