Gunman kills 50 in Florida gay nightclub

Thank you. Like I said, it varies from person to person regarding how far back they can remember.

My brother who has a tad better eyesight than me can shoot 2 to 3 inch groups with my Ruger all day long. I can do that on a good day. Good enough for me. You know Ruger did make some fixes to the gun about ten years ago.

I specifically bought the civvy-styled Ruger rather than one of the many AR variants 'cos I hate looking like I’m playing SWAT team.

@Max_Blancke:

Apparently supports the Taliban


the bbc is reporting he holds a pro-afganistan, anti-pakistan stance on his show.

he believes there are “good” taliban and “bad” taliban. the good ones he feels are pro-afgan, and the others are the terrorists. i think this has something to do with the taliban drawing from those people on the dividing line between the two countries. ( a line drawn by the british, and therefore disputed by some. )

at any rate: he sounds a bit wacky, and it sounds not easy to categorize him. he’s definitely not calling for jihad against america ( or lgbt folks ) though.

seriously? the way some christians call for death to homosexuals, and some don’t? the same way some christians want to see our country run according to the ten commandments, and some don’t? the same way there are pastors who will make racist or homophobic remarks to one audience, and not to another?

there are a lot of people in the world. it’s very easy to make those whom you don’t know into some sort of scary “other”, but i really hope you’re smarter than that.

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Can everyone take the gun talk somewhere else, please?

The guns are not important, a homophobe killing 50 people and injuring 53 is. LGBT is being silenced again.

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Mateen apparently claimed links to al-Qaida, Hezbollah and al-Nusra before Daesh. Clearly totally full of shit.

@anon73430903 did you see the Owen Jones/Sky News bullshit?

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It was the first thing I saw when I woke up.

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In London


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The former is what enabled the latter. But I agree we shouldn’t gloss over either.

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Are you still in Brazil?

He doesn’t even have the right sect. That was a Shia imam in a different part of Florida whom the shooter would have been unlikely to receive any guidance from. It has all the non-sequitur value of highlighting the Catholic church for a Baptist child molester two towns over.

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Thank you. I had decided not to respond, but you’re right: 3-year-olds are old enough to have memories. One of my kids is part of that cohort – turned 18 last month – and while she doesn’t remember the day as we adults do, she remembers a lot more than one might think. I was trying to shield her from it, but of course there’s only so much you can do on an extreme day like that.

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Precisely my point, so thank you.

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I would not give anyone a pass, no matter what their religion, if they are calling for killing people who have different views or lifestyles. I am not sure that it is necessary or relevant to reflexively bring up Christianity whenever someone mentions a case of Islamic intolerance. Also, it is not unreasonable to be skeptical of the motives some extremist members of a group while understanding that the vast majority are not guilty of having the same motivations. I am personally concerned that there are more than a few Imams in the west that give contradictory messages, talking about tolerance and peace when speaking to a western audience, and preaching the opposite message to their own congregations. There are some examples of this in the following documentary series-


Of course it is never wise to trust a single source for such information. There are some Danish programs that show the same basic issues happening in some of the Islamic communities there-

Also filmmakers in Germany and Holland have made undercover recordings in mosques in those countries, with similar results. I do not think it is Islamophobic to be critical of specific small groups of religious extremists who believe that God wants them to kill us. That is not necessarily an indictment on the whole religion or the majority it’s adherents.

[quote=“lolipop_jones, post:341, topic:79594”][quote=“MikeKStar, post:339, topic:79594”]
I personally support limits on large capacity clips and certain types of ammunition rather than banning the guns themselves.
[/quote]

OK, if you can give a convincing explanation of how that would deter mass shootings such as yesterday’s, I’m interested.
[/quote]

First, thanks for pointing out that the term ‘assault weapon’ is useless in discussion, let alone legislation. It really is. Both myself and @ActionAbe have already pointed this out and neither of us is, to my knowledge, a gun enthusiast.

Walk us through @MikeKStar’s suggestion though: if the shooter were limited to small capacity magazines, what would likely have happened? This is not a rhetorical challenge, I really would like to hear your thoughts.

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A large part of the difference between Clinton and Jobs is that though both were annoyed by clunky interfaces, Jobs had the resources to translate his annoyance into working products


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of course when someone claims allegiance to isis ( and a few other unrelated groups according to some reports, apparently ) it makes sense to talk about that person’s affiliations.

i would argue that bringing in random other people who happen to be of the same religion is – however – irrelevant. when i mentioned the radical nature of american christianity in response to your post, it was meant to be a reminder that no religion is above zealotry. ( even a-religious folks can be fanatical in their beliefs. )

isis is not primarily a religious group. they are a political, revolutionary group using religion to justify their actions. they seek to overthrow existing governments in order to establish their own government. the very definition of a political act.

if you want to know who faces the biggest dangers from isis and similar groups – it’s the people – muslims themselves – who live in those countries which experience terror attacks almost daily: iraq, afghanistan, pakistan, syria.

no. but it begins to be when you want to start a conversation about what other unrelated people have done in other contexts simply because they also happen to be muslim.

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One of the suppositions is that smaller capacity magazines would create opportunities for the gunman to be brought down while reloading - either shot by responding officers or tackled by civilians. It’s also thought that an inexperienced gunman would not be as accurate and not hit as many targets if he’s forced to reload after 10-15 rounds.

But just like the “good guy with a gun” theory - it sounds like a good idea but breaks down in practice when faced with a live shooter situation.

In reality however, nothing will prevent the next mass shooting unless and until we address the larger issue of America’s gun culture and the fetishizing of guns by large segments of the population. This is a cultural problem unique to America and culture takes a long time to influence change.

The problem is we can’t even begin to have a civil discussion about ANY kind of reasonable restrictions without hyperbole being thrown around by all sides.

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I’m coming around to this viewpoint as well. However, I still feel it’s reasonable that possession of a handgun or high-capacity semi should require a special license with a much more rigorous approval process. Again, these types of firearms are not exactly designed for hunting.*

*Animals. Not designed for hunting animals.

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Agreed,. It is. Last night most of the comments I posted, tried to post there. I was able to manually change the quotes but manually changing the thread number was a bridge too far. Remarkably, this has happened to me with @nemomen previously as well. I think it’s a bug?