And not just Kiwifarms.
“Because these sites frequently change hosting providers, and because their hosting information is hidden behind Cloudflare’s proxy servers, we are limited in helping victims remove their nude images,” the charity said.
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I hope there’s no outcry when they get the boot.
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This is a great picture of how bad this problem is. Specific to what you quoted, there are so many facets to cover here:
1 - domain registrar
2 - DNS (though the same in this case)
3 - Caching/DDoS Protection
4 - IP allocation (most sites don’t have this, including Boing Boing)
5 - Hosting provider
ALL of these, and all versions of these, around the world, need to take identical, coordinated action otherwise, these sites will not go away. This is the problem. This is why 8chan still exists, hate sites like the Daily Stormer still exist, and why individual corporations can’t be at the forefront of this fight. If Cloudflare had quietly, without their blogpost, just terminated the contract for these bigots, it’s extremely likely IMHO that they would have a much easier time finding a new home.
That sucks. That means we’re expecting white-knight allies, interest groups, or worst of all, victims to fight this fight, to make corporations and news agencies care enough to do something. And it’s whack-a-mole - there are how many other sites like this one who are flying under the radar today that are going to still be online even after all of this?
Universal regulations need to be passed and adopted by governments who will independently enforce and do the legwork we are currently asking vulnerable populations and their allies to do. We collectively need to hold our elected representatives accountable via NGOs and direct support to make sure this happens.
Something else to consider: Joshua Moon admits he is one person enabling all of this hate. Shield laws mean unless he himself has espoused this bile, he’s basically safe from significant consequence. This is the argument against poorly-drafted regulations like the Communications Decency Act (which, crucially, allows sites like the BBS to exist!) but that don’t create clearly-defined consequences for hate-speech. Those that enable hatred should not be protected from persecution under the same shield laws that allow vulnerable populations to be protected!
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for a company where the CEO / chairman of the board is a “free speech absolutist” (ie. extremist) who vowed 5 years ago to never censor hate speech ever again, giving scumbags the boot does seem extraordinary.
also, given the fact that these particular scumbags are just the tip of the iceberg and the company isn’t doing anything about the others, giving these particular scumbags the boot is definitely beyond what the company ordinarily does.
so yes, extraordinary, and they’re telling on themselves when they call it that.
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they didn’t host the original copy of the content, but they did host caches of that content that enabled their security services to keep the content online
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I’ve been thinking about a reply to your post for several hours now and it’s proven difficult, mostly because I don’t particularly disagree with anything you’ve written. This is an issue of which you’ve eloquently laid out the complexities. The sad reality is we currently occupy a world where the solutions you propose seem to me, unattainable anytime in the near future. My existence is illegal in 13 countries, of the nearly 100 countries with some protections for trans people, 74% of those make life extremely difficult for us. I can’t count on a set of universal regulations adopted globally, I can’t be sure my existence won’t be made illegal or worse here in the US within the next decade. I simply can’t count on government protection, all I have is the trans community and our allies. That means playing wack-a-mole and celebrating every victory.
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In a better world, all institutions that form a critical and de facto trusted monopolistic aspect of Internet infrastructure (and some content and search) would be run as not-for-profit foundations or consortiums or perhaps a public utility. Think the W3C, Wikipedia, and the top-level domain administrations of many nation-states.
Cloudflare sort of stumbled into the role of being the main organisation responsible for the job of mitigating DDoS attacks and has branched out naturally from there into being the most dominant content distribution network and now DNS provider. They’re extremely good at those jobs and have become the default choice and standard for any serious Webmaster. An organisation like that shouldn’t be a for-profit company, but here we are and – as our moderator notes – there’s a complex knot that has to either be untangled or slice through, Gordian style.
The best we can hope for in the U.S.* is that the government passes a general law that any Internet security company providing DDoS hacking mitigation is prohibited from protecting any site that engages in or actively encourages and enable its users to engage in DDoS attacks (“DDoS attacks” casting a wide net, including meatspace and harassment of individuals who own or run or administrate sites). In the case of KiwiFarms, that wouldn’t run afoul of Section 230 protections because the site’s admins and owners actively and demonstrably egg on their users and provide a space for them to select targets and co-ordinate attacks.
[* absent hate speech laws that would be the real solution]
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I may think Cloudflare’s CEO is an asshole, but I do support their role as it relates to internet infrastructure. They have protected many sites I visit from DDoS attacks. In roughly 2010 or so web development became a hobby of mine, that hobby recently turned into a degree, so I am sensitive to the complexities involved in this. I mean, it was reading or watching something from Cory Doctorow that brought me here as a lurker for a decade in the first place. It’s just that being part of a targeted group wears on you to the point that you just want it to stop and your willingness to engage with nuance diminishes.
I agree with everything in that final paragraph.
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I don’t blame you or any of our LGBTQ+ siblings for feeling that way. You are all at the top of the fascists’ hit lists and survival mode tends to erase nuance, however much one is inclined toward it.
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It’s tough to denounce Nazis when you are one, Cloudflare’s prior actions seem to indicate the reason they took no actions against Kiwifarms is that they were sympathetic to their aims and actions.
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I think it’s worth noting that this wasn’t crossing the line for Cloudflare when Kiwifarms was directly threatening LBGTQIA+ people. It only became an “imminent threat to health and safety” when they started threatening Cloudflare’s CEO and others at Cloudflare. Cloudflare was FINE with them threatening LBGTQIA+ people this whole time and insisting “the legal option was the best way to handle this” despite knowing full well that the legal option didn’t work because the site was basically shielded by Cloudflare.
I can only assume that the reason this was “okay” up to now was because Cloudflare’s CEO and structure supports the deaths that Kiwifarms was calling for before, but no longer supports it when it involves them personally. This meshes with their support of other terrorist and hate organizations.
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edit - tweet was deleted.
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formerly final solutions?
How long did it take them to change that name?
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She retracted that tweet.
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And people still wonder why I ended up being a social anarchist. If the government and capitalism do not protect me then what purpose do they serve, and why should I defend them?
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None, and no one should.
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Too bad, so sad, bye.
He doesn’t want the right to shout fire in a crowded theater, he wants the freedom to set people on fire.
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Every victory should be celebrated, full stop. Corporations should be held to account, and positive actions applauded, because as you point out, a comprehensive solution is likely far away.
I just want people who aren’t directly in the path of fire to take accountability for this stuff, too! There is no doubt that Cloudflare’s blog post making this more of a big deal has provided more attention on their decision. That is important, and it’s the responsibility of everyone - not just those directly affected - to push for change. I try to do what I can by volunteering my skills, time and money to support vulnerable sites and communities. I have the privilege of being able to do that, not everyone can. But most everyone can help somehow, whether that’s sharing the need for wider regulation and reform with their own communities, getting politicians to take notice, or some other action.
IMO, that’s where hope lies. And rebellions (against entrenched hatred and, as Cory puts it, “peak indifference” in this case), are built on hope.
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