Hey, kids! Let's play White Terrorism Bingo


#93

Appeal to authority? Man, you were doing pretty well right up until that post - personally I’d delete it. Humb never said Nawaz didn’t know what he was talking about, she said she disagreed with him.


#94

He talks about undermining, refuting and providing alternatives to an ideology. I did to. I said the alternative was jobs and social mobility.

It’s not enough though, not all terrorists (possibly even the minority in certain situations) come from disadvantaged backgrounds, many are well off and highly educated. The disadvantaged will of course also get swept up and used as cannon fodder, as has always been the case, so economic development is vital as well. If social deprivation was enough to explain terrorism then we’d see it everywhere, but you also need an ideology to harness it along with both real and/or perceived grievances, the ideology is also greatly important to the form the terrorism takes.

The basic point - that we should clearly distinguish between Islam and “Islamism” - is an academic, not a practical one.

I disagree.

People are seeing on the news that some Muslims killed a bunch of people in France in the name of Islam. It is not helpful if people blame Islam for that attack and turn against their Muslim neighbors.

Of course not.

He thinks the best way to address this is by using two different samey-sounding words. Other people think it’s more helpful to say “That’s not Islam.” I don’t think the message is really all that different.

They are different, one prevents the essential critical analysis of the dangerous ideologies that help foment radicalisation. I don’t think you’re quite aware just how widespread and unchallenged extremist ideologues are in the west (they’re very well funded form Saudi, and Qatar in particular for one thing), never mind the middle east and elsewhere.

But how are the Paris attacks even vaguely consistent with the effort to get everyone to adopt Islam?

They’re not, and nobody is suggesting that’s their motive.

It couldn’t have been better calculated to get air strikes aimed at their training camps.

That’s not a very good argument for not blowing up their training camps though. If an idiot wants you to do something, it might actually be the right thing to do, just not for reasons the idiot thinks. That doesn’t mean there aren’t good reasons for not bombing them, but their opinions on things aren’t particularly relevant.

It is useful to ISIS that young Muslims in France continue to be discriminated against and put in ghettos and be unable to find jobs.

True, these extremists preach ghettoisation regardless though, and of course it’s vital to counter bigotry as well as Islamism - which is why I keep saying we need to prevent right wing assholes from framing the debate. When the public see mainstream politicians and media outlets failing to address these obvious issues it will only drive them to the reactionary asshats.


Salafist Terrorism
Salafist Terrorism
#95

I don’t think deleting parts of old posts is a good idea, I’m happy with what I wrote. Nawaz is worth listening to because he has the experience and the arguments to back that up.


#96

Now THAT was a great movie! They don’t make 'em like that any more.


#97

If by ‘good’ you mean the glaring mistake as early as the second paragraph, and the begs-the-question headline, then sure; it’s a good article.


#98

That headline is not an example of either of the definitions of ‘begs-the-quesiton’ (i.e. circular argument or rhetorical device), it’s merely a statement which the ensuing article argues for.

The three statements in the 2nd paragraph also seem to be perfectly cromulent (the WWIII comment at worst is a bit of an exaggeration, but not in anyway a glaring mistake).


Salafist Terrorism
split this topic #99

2 posts were merged into an existing topic: Islamic Terrorism


#101

You can be well(ish)-off, educated, and still “not belong”.

…don’t ask how I know…


split this topic #102

2 posts were merged into an existing topic: Islamic Terrorism


split this topic #103

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#104

Attacks on women’s reproductive clinics are intended to instill fear in women’s reproductive health care providers and patients with the intent of making abortion services impossible to obtain, even if that wasn’t a service available at the targeted clinic. The very definition of a terrorist act - violence perpetrated with the intent of fomenting a change in policy. In this case, I believe it’s perfectly fair to call the perpetrator a Christian terrorist.


#105

I agree with both you and @gregmcph here. It is both true that: 1) Since “terrorist” is current a synonym for “no legal rights” we shouldn’t really be used that term for anyone and that “murderer” is preferable; and 2) There is an obvious double standard by which we will not call right-wing-American terrorism “terrorism” and refusal to call them terrorists (when we can’t really stop people from calling right-wing-middle-eastern terrorism against the west “terrorism”) is playing into a kind of racism.

It feels like a rock and a hard place to me.


#108

1 in 11 is quite high, if you are talking about 4%. That would actually be more like 1 in 25.


#109

Peace and prosperity? Possibly. Half Life 3? Crazed Utopian Dreaming.


#110

Math, my best subject, escapes me sometimes…thanks!


#112

I’m sorry to gloss over all of that but I have to ask, do you have a central point that you’re arguing here? This is too much and I don’t know where to start responding.

“Synonymous” means “identical in meaning” and is hence a reflexive relationship. Is control synonymous with religion?


#113

I’m sorry to gloss over all of that but I have to ask, do you have a central point that you’re arguing here? This is too much and I don’t know where to start responding.

Go back and re-read my original posts, subsequent posts have been mostly about correcting your mischaracterisation of my views (and adding further detail to remove any possible confusion). The initial point was that there is nothing wrong with using the phrase “Islamic terrorism” when it’s warranted by the facts, just as there’s nothing wrong with using “Christian terrorism” when similarly warranted.

“Synonymous” means “identical in meaning” and is hence a reflexive relationship. Is control synonymous with religion?

It doesn’t only mean that, it also means “Closely associated with or suggestive of something”.


#114

The word “religion” itself means regulation, or control, if you will. At it’s most basic religion is a set of protocols that one must follow. And protocols and rules serve to control. Not always bad, but religion and control of people are intimately woven together from the very beginning.


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#117

Oh no problem, I do it aaaaaall the time.