It’s also easy to pick out folks who grew up around teachers. Certain things grate on my ears, like ending a sentence with a preposition, using of instead of by, and incorrect use of I vs. me.
Were you trying to learn to understand it, speak it, or both? Sometimes, the ear for a language is easier to develop. I went to school with a student from Haiti. She spoke Creole to me and I could only reply in French, but that was enough. My SILs family members from the Caribbean speak a few different languages/patois. I can understand and translate into English, but would probably never reach the next linguistic level unless I lived there.
Both. I was able to get by in French, but I like to be able to at the very least greet patients in their native language. I can pull of basic greetings in a dozen or so languages, but Haitian was beyond me.
Okay, y’all, what are we going to do about “they” somehow becoming singular? The 5th grade teacher in my head cringes every time I hear “they” instead of a gender neutral singular.
I propose bringing back the old bulletin board/LiveJournal choice: ze (or zhe, if you’re more pretentious).
Sample usage - Ze is the candidate to watch because of zir stand on equality.
There is a gender neutral singular, but referring to a person as “it” is a bit problematic. It has been pointed out that singular “they” has been around for a very long time:
Me: “Mom!! There’s somebody at the door!”
Mom: “Well, what do they want?”
Boom, singular “they”
Have to agree with the jangly sound it makes for me, but made up, impossible to pronounce words are not the answer, either (IMHO). Y’all is just a proper contraction of “you all,” which fills a very important role that English is otherwise lacking.
It used to be singular and sometimes still is, so…
Just use the pronouns people want you to use to refer to them, seriously. It’s the polite, kind, and inclusive thing to do, even if it irritates your inner 5th grade teacher. It seems like our inner 5th grade teacher should be more concerned with not making people feel isolated and alienated. Language is never static, anyway. It changes all the time.
Abosolutely. You have the right to be addressed how you choose.
What I would like to see, though, are more socially-accepted options for you to choose from. While multiple folks have pointed out that “they” in this sense has been used for a long time, I really wish that there was a label available that folks could choose to use that didn’t have grammatical arguments against it. I would love for “they” to be as widely accepted as gendered singular pronouns without “feeling weird” to people (as noted above), and I hope that happens! But at the same time, there’s enough manufactured controversy around this subject already that I wish our ancestors had come up with a better alternative that was, as our resident professor suggests, “inner 5th grade teacher” approved as well.
Idiosyncrasies of language, like y’all, are one thing. When they applied and inextricably linked to a term someone chooses to be called by, that goes beyond “irritating” to intolerable, and I wish there were a more widely accepted choice available to them.
Since we are practically neighbors–Texas-close–please let me introduce my Texas District 45 House Rep, Erin Zwiener (D).
Her web site is “ErinForYall” dot com:
So I’m willing to wager “y’all” is a real live word in regional American-English.
She’s one of the most progressive realists to come out of Hays County in a long time, and she just earned a second term serving my district. She’s working on redistricting, i.e. getting better, fairer state district lines drawn in so we can elect people who live closer to their constituents and may even be more responsive.
Since you’re in Austin, here’s what REDMAP…
… did to y’all (I pointed a red arrow at Austin) and us (southwest, in Hays County, though our districts not drawn in on this map):
Stupid Song About Texas says “Our howdies are the y’alliest”
Texas is a big state, north to south and east to west
Alaska doesn’t really count, we’re bigger than the rest
You can waltz across it, though, so grab your yellow rose
And sing another song of Texas, this is how it goes
One more stupid song about Texas
For miles and miles it rambles on
Biggest egos, biggest hair, biggest liars anywhere
Let’s sing another stupid Texas song
By God we’re so darn proud to be from Texas - yahoo!
Even of our pride we’re proud and we’re proud of that pride, too
Our pride about our home state is the proudest pride indeed
And we’re proud to be Americans, until we can secede
One more stupid song about Texas
You’ve heard it all before so sing along
Biggest belt buckles and boasts, love that big old Texas toast
Let’s sing another stupid Texas song
Our accents are the drawliest, our howdies are the y’alliest
Our lone star flag’s the waviest, our fried steak’s the cream-graviest
Our rattlesnakes the coiliest, our beaches are the oiliest
Our politicians most corrupt, our stop signs most abrupt
Our guitars are the twangiest, our guns are the kablangiest
Our cattle the long-horniest, our yodels the forlorniest
Our cookoffs are the chiliest, our Waylon is the Williest
Our sausage is the smokiest, our neighbors are the Okiest
From Texarkana to El Paso, Dalhart down to Orange
Every spot in Texas has got what you’re looking for
Aren’cha glad that Texas put the stars up in the sky
If heaven isn’t Texas, pardner, I don’t want to die
One more stupid song about Texas
Just ‘cause we’re braggin’, that don’t mean it’s wrong
Biggest heads and biggest hearts, biggest various body parts
Let’s sing another stupid Texas song
Toss your hats into the air, we’re obnoxious, we don’t care
Let’s sing another stupid Texas song
One more blusterin’, bumptious, bald faced, brazen
High flown, high-tone, dander-up, panderin’
Pompous, puffed-up, snotty, swaggerin’
Stupid Texas song
According to javitrino (on YouTube and Twitch), some Spanish speakers are attempting to push acceptance of gender-neutral pronouns through spreading their usage:
Him/her/they-them (literally, that person) singular (masculine/feminine/neutral): él/ella/esa persona
They/them plural (m/f/n): ellos/ellas/elles
You plural (informal, m/f/n): vosotros/vosotras/vosotres
We/us plural (formal, m/f/n): nosotros/nosotras/nosotres
The gender-neutral -es hasn’t been accepted by the Royal Academy yet, but if if gets popular enough in the next few years, it might become official.
(I’ve only watched two of Javi’s “Spanish For Leftists” videos so far. I’m no expert, but based on memories of my high school and college classes, these look like decent and thorough tutorials on the language.)
Because I’m an idiot/soy idiota, edit to correct the translation of nosotros, which I got wrong. Yup, definitely need a refresher.
